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 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"

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How would you rate The Bishop Revival ?
10
45%
 45% [ 5 ]
9
27%
 27% [ 3 ]
8
18%
 18% [ 2 ]
7
9%
 9% [ 1 ]
6
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
5
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
4
0%
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Total Votes : 11
 

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lezario
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PostSubject: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:24 pm

Trailer

Spoiler:
 

Promo pictures

Spoiler:
 

Press release

Spoiler:
 

Casting Call

Spoiler:
 

*

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Last edited by lezario on Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:21 am

Jeez Walter, give your son a complex why don't you? Crimineys, he all but flat-out accused Peter of being responsible for all those deaths. I get the impression Peter has struggled mightily trying to cope with his place in life as The Son of Walter Bishop, Yes, THE Walter Bishop, and has not been all that successful at it. And damn, watching soaked Peter at the end trying to make final amends? He looked like a 7 year old hoping Daddy would forgive him by drawing a "Daddy + me" picture. I could practically picture the little boy PJs and teddy bear in his arms as he waited for some sign from Walter. He's gonna be CRUSHED when the truth comes out. He is really trying to connect with Walter. Tho, kinda surprised he didn't mention Walter's "you should have met him yada yada" was pretty much verbatim what Arrival Kidnapper and Torturer Guy told him too.

At this point, I think the death of Peter's mom is why Peter left school. Either he left because he was taking care of her; couldn't handle things after her death; or was unable to handle things after her death. I'm almost on the realm of the last two. Since it seems Peter was entirely on his own after she was gone, and Peter's mentioned before how they had no money, then I'm guessing he left to both escape his memories and his financial destitution. I do believe there was a bit of truth to his "I needed the money" even if the main motive was to piss Walter off should Walter ever find out about the sold books.

I'm also starting to think that Walter suspects his time (secret) may be up soon, and has been trying lately to lay the groundwork for forgiveness/understanding of his actions. While I've thought this for awhile, particularly with the convo with Peter in the car in Edina City Limits, I strongly got the impression that's what he was doing with his little Olivia groveling "I'd do anything for my family." Which, BTW, really ticked me off when Hypocrite Walter coldly told Peter "apology NOT accepted".
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:59 pm

In any case, Peter's situation after Walter's confinement and whatever happened to his mother seems to be darker than what we thought. He wasn't an ordinary unruly little brat...
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:33 pm

They have said that 'the breaking of Peter's relationship with his mother is what broke him'. I think she is dead, Walter's knowledge of her being on the other side would make him nervous to even speak of her since he knows Peter's going to find out all about things soon, he can see it's unravelling. Plus, too much dwelling on extra characters (all their parents...gah) would distract from the essential parent-child storyline, Walter and Peter.
.......

I almost got the feeling that Walter already knows Peter and Olivia will marry! That bit about 'sooner than you might think'...plus, after the jokey 'you look lovely' line, Peter does linger looking at her while the dialogue goes on ahead.

It was heartbreaking stuff, seeing Walter so easily blame Peter for those deaths. And the parallel was so clear and obvious (Walter having to clean up after his father's mess, the way Peter has been since he was a teenager and especially now days)--that even Walter should have seen it. But when they knew the formula hadn't come from the books, he didn't apologize, nor at the end, either.

---niggling detail: The compound would be strongly almond scented, not cinnamon.

Bookstore scene was great! All the subcurrents there; P/O, teasing about P/O, more fragments of Peter's past... makes you wonder what else Markham knows. He will be a ressource for them again, I am sure.

And poor Peter trying to make amends--this was beautifully done. Josh is really fine at these emotionally charged scenes. The whole episode was very well done in depicting his troubled relationship with Walter, and his chaotic tumble through life. Father loves you-hates you-loves you-hurts you...no wonder he's messed up. Let alone the other thing...

The Nazi guy is human (and I don't believe the Observers are). Walter's DNA work would have revealed if he wasn't human. He did say the guy tested at over 100 years old; and he was working in that lab in Berlin, not ghosting past as an Observer. So-------while he might be an Observer, I don't think he was. But there was lots of stuff in those books Walter clearly feared.

Wild guess: so, Robert Bischoff was a spy for the allies, a double agent in Hitler's Germany; is this a hint of a new assignment for Peter Bishop coming up soon?

(Side note: really bad image of "Robert Bischoff"! )

Semi-side note: Peter's origin in the other place cannot be the only 'odd' thing about him, that wouldn't be enough to start that kind of war over. So there's got to be more to him, and also to the war.
The physical action of getting Peter might have engendered the soft spots, etc., but that's not an ability: "You have no idea what you're capable of" means Peter is actually capable of something very unusual. And it's not simply sensing folks from over there or having an acute sense of smell. Nor even of passing from one world to another easily, which we also surmise he can do; that wouldn't be an ability Walter would twit Peter about in relation to brief empty encounters.

(From Safe:
Quote :
WALTER: What I said before - didn't come out as I intended.
PETER: What, the crack about the breasts?
WALTER: No, about my disappointment in you. It has more to do
with your potential than anything else. You have no idea what you're
capable of Peter.
PETER: That's sweet, Walter, but ultimately unfair - especially coming from you.

That was an odd scene at the end with Walter and Olivia... sounded like a warning and a semi-confession at the same time, and he was looking longingly at Peter while he was telling Olivia. "There's nothing I wouldn't do." And she seemed to understand... of course she had tried to kill her mother's abuser, so she probably does.


All in all, an extremely well done episode. Powerful acting, directing and story... excellent detective story, all of it. I so much hope they get their full six years.

________________________________

"A strong morality tale in between "Aahhhhhh, HELP!" moments."


Last edited by Elliot on Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:51 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : details! quotes! a plethora of reasons.)
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:14 pm

Oh, and Kreisler, I agree with you on Peter's situation from then up until Olivia finds him in Iraq. He's gotten really good at surviving really bad things...and gotten himself into a bunch of them by making bad decisions.

He was able to believe that the people in this episode were dying because of one of those decisions (to sell Walter's books---really one of the only ways he could think of to make Walter feel what Peter had felt in being abandoned) ---because he knows just how bad his life was.
(In SAFE:
Quote :
PETER: The reason this store seems like such a miracle to you is because you've been holed-up in a mental institution for the better part of the last two decades - which effectively does two things. One, it precludes you from knowing much of anything about me. About who I am, who I've been, what I know, and what I've done. And two, it renders any fatherly judgments you may have of me - moot… Are we clear?)
Since he was a child through most of that, it's not been his doing, he's just been reacting and protecting himself as a child would. Walter's been abusing him for a very long time, and kind to him only recently.

Now that he will know finally, I expect he will be truly, jumping down a mine-shaft, angry.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:36 pm

Quote :
I almost got the feeling that Walter already knows Peter and Olivia will marry! That bit about 'sooner than you might think'...plus, after the jokey 'you look lovely' line, Peter does linger looking at her while the dialogue goes on ahead.

Maybe he managed to travelled through time and see this...
Walter is observant too.
Though you don't need to be to see that Peter likes her and she likes him !

Quote :
Bookstore scene was great! All the subcurrents there; P/O, teasing about P/O, more fragments of Peter's past... makes you wonder what else Markham knows. He will be a ressource for them again, I am sure.

Markam..... I noticed the handmade glasses string !

Quote :
That was an odd scene at the end with Walter and Olivia... sounded like a warning and a semi-confession at the same time, and he was looking longingly at Peter while he was telling Olivia. "There's nothing I wouldn't do." And she seemed to understand... of course she had tried to kill her mother's abuser, so she probably does.

Almost like he did know that she would be able to see, soon, that Peter wasn't from this world.
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:47 pm

lezario wrote:

Maybe he managed to travelled through time and see this...
Walter is observant too.
Though you don't need to be to see that Peter likes her and she likes him !
----
Markam..... I noticed the handmade glasses string !
Me too!
Quote :

Almost like he did know that she would be able to see, soon, that Peter wasn't from this world.

I think he does know. He sees that things are speeding up, and he has known for a while he's been making slips. Since he knows the SS (hmmmm can't be coincidental, now) know, and are after building a door, he knows it will all have to come out soon.

I wonder about the time travel... I hope they are true to their word, and don't do that (it has been mangled so badly by so many shows, and used to screw the audience so often, I flat hate it).... but there is something going on about time, certainly.

What if this villain was as you suggest a bad Observer...who had known Robert in Germany, and told him things, and he told Walter?

Oh, and why "Revival"?

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:10 pm

For the title, maybe it refers to the work of Robert Bishop, that was kind of "revived".
Or maybe it was also referring to the german guy, who may be, either some kind of Observer, or the son of the guy Robert Bishop knew ? Or a clone ?

And... Jones was in prison in Germany.... they certainly hadn't choose that location randomly....

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:17 pm

That is probably it, revival of his work... revived by that guy, and now his books again in Walter's hands.

I do think Walter killed him not only to stop him killing those people (and anyone else he was going to kill). Also to punish him for corrupting Robert's work.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:25 pm

For corrupting his father's work, but maybe also because Walter think this guy was responsible for his dad's death ?

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:06 pm

That could be...he could have remembered him from the photos, and so from his father telling him.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:34 am

And now that I'm fully awake, didn't they say in the beginning of Walter's Nazi discussion that they'd been working on eternal youth? I was going to say that this morning, but suffered lack of coffee...

Maybe that guy found it. (Eternal youth, not coffee.) And then in a lovely hand of fate moment, Walter sent him to Oblivion with his knowledge.

Off to re-watch, to be sure.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:10 am

Excellent episode again ! I liked it.
Many P/O moments again. And roguish Walter as a go-between !
"Do you think she'll call me Dad... ? (...) She's just what you need" grins
Nice new plot, too... and the ghost of Robert Bishop...
And masterful John Noble !! Every shot with this guy is just perfect.
Walter is definitively my favorite character. Complex, mysterious, and so human after all.
"You know, family is very important to me". And it's not a coincidence if these words are for Olivia !
Nice performance of Jackson and Torv, too. These scenes with the bookseller (cool guy, I like him !), and with the young foolish artist were very nice. And between Peter and his father, about the books sold by Peter, his culpability...
Many things to say about this episode. Maybe I'll go back on it.
And the music is fabulous in this episode ! Walter's theme is very beautiful.

Just for fun : the faces !!
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:09 pm

I wrote notes the second time around, it's nice to watch everything in one sitting, then go back and jot down this or that. Although Charlie Had to Chime in at one point, "Are you writing EVERYTHING down?" Wiseguy.

"Did I ever tell you about our wedding, Peter? Your mother, God Rest Her Soul....."

Mom deceased, finally some confirmation on that. I narrowed my eyes at Walter's "Do you think Agent Dunham will call me Dad?" Those Teases!

It was terribly creepy to realize the victims were Jewish descent, and the direct descendants of the Holocaust survivior who recognized the man at the door. This is where my mild manner husband speaks up saying the numbers were done in blue and her number would have been more faded with time. Nazi's used to give him nightmares as a boy in the 50's, so I chalk it up to that and go back to the show.

The P/O matching peacoats are back, YEA! grins I"ve missed you, matching peacoats!

The cinnamon candle, go Peter!

Astrid and Walter's conversation talking about how all the people were direct descendants, except for one whom Astrid suspected was illegitimate. The mother of the groom, perhaps?
Not important, but funny for an otherwise macabre conversation.

"Ostrich", a new one!

Walter trying the inhaler, as Astrid startles.
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:23 pm

Creepy blonde guy and the little girl in the coffee shop, I loved the look on her face as she watches the smell waft into the air.

Walter showed off his "Clap on, clap off" on the projection screen, a very cute moment to help offset the shocking signature on the molecule.

At first it was a tail, then I looked, and as they said it, I went, "OMG, it's the seahorse!" I Loved it!

We were just talking about Robert Bishop the other day, first time I'd brought his name up in a long time, I'm really glad I didn't know this episode would be about him. It's really true he died 2 years before Walter was born? Lez pointed that out to me. That, and the unmistakable references to how much Peter looks like his grandfather. It will be interesting to have explanations about that.

The books, selling them to spite his dad. Everytime they argue now I get a little apprehensive. Everyone wonders what THE conversation is going to be like.

Markham! Hi! Missed you!

"Great. More bad news." I Love when Walter uses his lower register, analytical voice. The Combination of being able to destroy different physical traits together sounds very plausible.
The Fringe Science was off the hook this week, really good. And icky.

I got to laugh second time around when Mr. Cathy jumped at the New Dispersal Container.That was pretty funny!

Mr. Creepy's lab making Walter's lab look downright homey. It certainly did. And it was also spooky as he heard footsteps through his house above him.

Walter's resolve on his face as he narrowly escapes death, comes back down to the basement, removes his mask and picks up the 'gun'.

It was Awesome, the way Walter targeted the murderer. "Try to Kill ME, and I Will Try to Kill You BACK." Excellent, Walter!

Rained-on Peter made him look strangely vulnerable with books in hand to make up with Walter.

Only One More Show, I thought I had Two More. Now I'll go back and see what you guys thought. Excellent Episode!
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:40 pm

Morning, Cathy!

I checked--yes, Eternal Youth was in the list Walter reels off when he first suspects Nazis.. "The Nazis were scientific pioneers. They attempted to stretch the bounds of every scientific (?? something here, I'm remembering, didn't use a scratch pad (go, Cathy!))---------------- but this I have cold: "Molecular bombs. Flying Saucers. Eternal Youth."
Then in true detective story fashion, they zoom right on so we don't twig to its importance.

Plus, I can only assume this means we will have Mulder and Scully references along again in the future.

The cinnamon thing still bugged me, but it is of no consequence in what was a really fine episode.
(since we began rating here, my first 10).

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:46 pm

"Apology Not Accepted." *sigh*, Well, that's just Walter to me, you don't play around with his food or his belongings. We all know the shoe's going to be on the other foot soon enough.

I did a '10' also. Kudos to you for the almond reference, it was just assumed at my place that the cinnamon was used to further disguise the dangerous ingredient. Or maybe I'm over rationalizing.

Nice feedback!
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:24 pm

I found it interesting too that Broyles just gave Walter a pass on killing Mr. Spectacles. "Good Night Mr. Bishop." Brr.

-------Cathy, oh keeper of details.... what book do you suppose Franko was referring to in Walter's books "with the creepy stuff in them... Alice in Wonderland meets the Nazis.."????

I googled last night to see if I could find a book that fit that. Maybe it's just a nod to next week, or the greater alice theme this year, but I doubt that. I found a couple of possibilities, but nothing that really rang a bell, so to speak.

Kreisler? Lez? Other omnivores? Anybody have a book reference for me?

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:29 pm

Elliot wrote:
Alice in Wonderland meets the Nazis.."????

what are you thinking of?
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:59 pm

Did you notice what Franko's line was, exactly? It popped out at me when he said it, and I thought it was perhaps a direct literary reference to one of Walter's books Peter had sold.. or maybe a clue for future things. They mentiioned Thomas Mann, and I don't remember who else. Wikipedia has a big (huge really) list of works deriving from Alice in Wonderland, but I couldn't see one that merged both themes.

It sounded to me like Franko was saying that some of Robert Bishoff was he researching a Door then, long before Walter existed. Did the experiments he did then involve Olivia and Peter even before they existed? Would that explain how Rogue seemed to know him when he didn't look as old as Walter?

I had the feeling that they were using Nazi metaphorically in that reference, as that group might refer to the ZFT group (doing things the rest of their society would be apalled at, following a leader beyone reason, etc.). Wild eyed reactionaries as a type. I really don't see Fringe using the actual historical group in the story, except as establishing a timeline.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:52 am

Here's the picture of the apple glyph. So we had apple and seahorse, I was wondering if there were any other glyphs during the episode, but I can't remember them all.

Kreisler wrote:
In any case, Peter's situation after Walter's confinement and whatever happened to his mother seems to be darker than what we thought. He wasn't an ordinary unruly little brat...
ITA. I never got the impression he was a brat, but I do think he had the world on his shoulders as a kid.

Elliot wrote:
I almost got the feeling that Walter already knows Peter and Olivia will marry! That bit about 'sooner than you might think'...plus, after the jokey 'you look lovely' line, Peter does linger looking at her while the dialogue goes on ahead.
Elliot wrote:
I think he does know. He sees that things are speeding up, and he has known for a while he's been making slips. Since he knows the SS (hmmmm can't be coincidental, now) know, and are after building a door, he knows it will all have to come out soon.
Walter has to be a shipper, for purely selfish motives. When Peter finds out, it may be Walter's only card to try and keep him in THIS universe.

Quote :
Semi-side note: Peter's origin in the other place cannot be the only 'odd' thing about him, that wouldn't be enough to start that kind of war over. So there's got to be more to him, and also to the war.
The physical action of getting Peter might have engendered the soft spots, etc., but that's not an ability: "You have no idea what you're capable of" means Peter is actually capable of something very unusual. And it's not simply sensing folks from over there or having an acute sense of smell. Nor even of passing from one world to another easily, which we also surmise he can do; that wouldn't be an ability Walter would twit Peter about in relation to brief empty encounters.
I kinda think Walter's "you have no idea what you're capable of" is mainly in reference to Peter's IQ. Peter could probably outsmart his father if he ever put his mind to it.

Quote :
That was an odd scene at the end with Walter and Olivia... sounded like a warning and a semi-confession at the same time, and he was looking longingly at Peter while he was telling Olivia. "There's nothing I wouldn't do." And she seemed to understand... of course she had tried to kill her mother's abuser, so she probably does.
I don't think she understood. I think she said she understood. I think she understood only that Walter was a murderer. And the thing with Broyles? Walter really wasn't putting much on the line there, as he's already been declared incompetent to stand trial for murder, and is only in the general public because he's in Peter's custody (as well as watched by the FBI). Broyles knows that.

Elliot wrote:
And now that I'm fully awake, didn't they say in the beginning of Walter's Nazi discussion that they'd been working on eternal youth? I was going to say that this morning, but suffered lack of coffee...

Maybe that guy found it. (Eternal youth, not coffee.) And then in a lovely hand of fate moment, Walter sent him to Oblivion with his knowledge.
Hoffman pretty much had every trait isolated. I would not be surprised if he had isolated the aging gene as well. It had to be an aging issue, since Walter said Hoffman's DNA was about 100 years old. 70 years since Hoffman worked with Robert, and he was about 30 at the time would match Walter's DNA sample.

Cathy904 wrote:
We were just talking about Robert Bishop the other day, first time I'd brought his name up in a long time, I'm really glad I didn't know this episode would be about him. It's really true he died 2 years before Walter was born? Lez pointed that out to me. That, and the unmistakable references to how much Peter looks like his grandfather. It will be interesting to have explanations about that.
Hoffman also said Walter looked just like Robert. As to the year discrepency? If you read the comics, then yes - but the comics aren't canon (not to mention a complete retcon of our TV version Walter - Do. Not. Get. Me. Started, at least you guys aren't insisting Robert was actually Walter gone back in time, and was the guy in all the pictures Walter showed to Peter) and it's most likely just a continuity issue anyways. Walter clearly spent time with his dad, hence "You should have met him, I think you and he would like each other very much" line he threw at Peter.
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:05 pm

Stephy wrote:
Just for fun : the faces !!

They didn't get any sleep.......... *wink wink*

Elliot wrote:
Morning, Cathy!

I checked--yes, Eternal Youth was in the list Walter reels off when he first suspects Nazis.. "The Nazis were scientific pioneers. They attempted to stretch the bounds of every scientific (?? something here, I'm remembering, didn't use a scratch pad (go, Cathy!))---------------- but this I have cold: "Molecular bombs. Flying Saucers. Eternal Youth."
Then in true detective story fashion, they zoom right on so we don't twig to its importance.

Eternal youth, yes !

Elliot wrote:
I found it interesting too that Broyles just gave Walter a pass on killing Mr. Spectacles. "Good Night Mr. Bishop." Brr.

-------Cathy, oh keeper of details.... what book do you suppose Franko was referring to in Walter's books "with the creepy stuff in them... Alice in Wonderland meets the Nazis.."????

I googled last night to see if I could find a book that fit that. Maybe it's just a nod to next week, or the greater alice theme this year, but I doubt that. I found a couple of possibilities, but nothing that really rang a bell, so to speak.

Kreisler? Lez? Other omnivores? Anybody have a book reference for me?

Olivia is clearly Alice, with all the clues on the poster, and else.... the Nazis, either the "Modifiers", or people from the other side ?
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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:08 pm

And some books that have some nice references to Alice in Wonderland.

Alice in Quantumland, by Robert Gilmore (Gilmore, doesn't it remind you of something ?!)

Otherland by Tad Williams, a science fiction series I've read.
A Red Queen, a chess squares referring to the Looking Glass, men chasing the protagonists who have the forms of Tweedledum and Tweedledee...............

The Looking Glass Wars, and Seeing Redd.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:30 pm

lezario wrote:
Clues :

the M?? like in MD??

the typewriter, i was wondering too
eternal rubik's cube, nice R/G

good luck charm!!!! YES!

i can't see anything...

APPLE (s)!!!!
is it the die you're pointing at?
CHAGALL... again!! nice catch

it was great to have Markham back

Olivia was a bit off during the whole episode (and yet she missed Walter's marriage project), especially during their visit at the bookstore. but then she simply hated that Walter could murder the nazi in cold blood

i can't believe that Peter & Walter both missed Hoffman on the old photograph in Robert's lab back in Berlin though...


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PostSubject: Re: 2x13 "The Bishop Revival"   Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:31 pm

And the glyphs spelled "FATHER"

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