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 2x05 "Dream Logic"

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Cathy904
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:07 am

Okay, darn, no Halloween show? I was hoping....
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:13 am

We all were.
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:19 am

I love the little tallies on the left. I was at like, 320 this morning? That's a Lot of typing for me.

I'm going to step away a little and check back, okay? Husband wants me to watch the Mentalist..... smile
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:23 am

Alrite. Talk to you later, Cathy.
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:02 am

Outstanding!! I loved it!

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:07 am

Betray---Walter betrayed Peter, no?
Oh, and
Agent Dunham=in public
Olivia = in private.

Works for me--along with them choosing the same wardrobe.

And, guys---this WAS the Halloween episode....

ETA: the mirror! Now I have to go back and look at the reflections photos.




Collect some, and look at them.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:48 am

Walter's song he was whistling... sounded familiar to me.

RAVI KAPOOOOOR !

The hotel scenes grins grins grins grins grins
Quote :
Agent Dunham=in public
Olivia = in private

Yes, yes, yes, yes !

OMG THE END !!!!

"you're gonna be fine." Aw.
For a second I thought peter was going to say it at the hotel !

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:55 am

I think he wanted to. And she was finally opening up to him. She knows now they both have nightmares.

And seeing Walter in the other side of the mirror! (Hey! remember that Nina Sharp picture, the guy in the reflection behind her not being the guy across from her!)

I really really liked this ep. And am so glad they are FINALLY dealing with Peter's childhood.

Talk to you later--

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:37 am

Notice the number 47 ?

And the date on Charlie's grave ? Oct. 8th.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:40 pm

Elliot wrote:

Agent Dunham=in public
Olivia = in private.

I can live with that, if Agent Dunham must be used.

Elliot wrote:
I think he wanted to. And she was finally opening up to him. She knows now they both have nightmares.

And seeing Walter in the other side of the mirror! (Hey! remember that Nina Sharp picture, the guy in the reflection behind her not being the guy across from her!)

I really really liked this ep. And am so glad they are FINALLY dealing with Peter's childhood.

Talk to you later--

The end and the P/O moments made the episode for me. The end especially...I was in shock.
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:46 pm

Ggod morning ladies! I guess Lez hasn't seen it yet.

This Was the Halloween episode, eh? Okay, You know, it's probably hard to tell with all the wierdness that goes on in every show,LOL.

By the way, who paralyzed the smilies? Ha, Probably by trying to add too many at once? Lez will fix it, but now all I can do is Ha! and lol, LOL!

I'm sorry they're breaking after 4 episodes. This production must be really hard!

SamWeiss' note was so sweet! She's so resilient, I hate to see her cry, but then it's so nice dramatically. Guess I like to see my heroine suffer!

Olivia's sorrowful confession to Peter was sad and sweet. His "Okay" as she rushed out of the room made BW very happy. I suppose they ARE opening up to each other a little more.

The ending was like the drama the Joshua Jackson said would be so fun, the audience knows something that the protagonist does not, and gets excited as they progress towards that unknown.

In hindsight, it was terribly funny that Walter experimented on the agent. Nothing ever happened with the agent? But Walter left Astericks (!) behind as his acid took effect?

Fun Show, with a Kicker at the end!
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:39 pm

this was fun all right but with an obvious X Files bias since it was really P/O centric, not that i complain

hence plenty of P/O scenes that shall keep us waiting/writing about till next episode huh

Walter was a riot ut isn't he always (extra points for dozing agent whutshisname)

edit
and yes the last scene!! oh my [ smile ]
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:16 pm

Hey Xeen! Glad to see you!

It was a great episode, wasn't it? And I loved all the humanness--Walter's fears, Peter's compassion towards him (and towards Olivia), Olivia's starting to confide in Peter (her willingness to disclose her inner state to him), Peter's disclosure to Olivia of vulnerable details---those were some powerful character making things.

Interesting parallel between Nayak experimenting on subjects and using them for his own ends, and Walter who does the same. And both of their lack of understanding, or even knowledge, of what they are doing.

Nice scene where Olivia points out that she and Peter are wearing the same clothes, and that she thinks it's cute.

Though it is bitchy of her to keep rubbing it in that she graduated college and he stole it. (Combination of cop-judgmental and jealousy? --His IQ has allowed him to bypass all kinds of gates she probably chafes at, and he blows past rules he doesn't like or respect (same as Walter!)---yeah, she's likely jealous.)
But still, Olivia, sweetie, he doesn't demean your IQ or anything else about you. And he's always there for you, no matter how rude you are to him. How will that feel when he goes missing?)

The mirror at the end! Lez, did you get screen shots of that? Walter and what, planets or something, swirling in that other universe in the mirror? Mirror as portal.......so very Alice!

At the end---why not yank the cap off Nayak's head instead of shooting the servers? I know, to have another scene where Olivia shoots at or nearly at, Peter, which is----weird, and I hope they finish whatever kink that is and get past it.

The sudden aging of the bodies part doesn't hold up scientifically of course, but who cares? Glorious cinematography, action, lovely weird ideas, and Peter's nightmares.... YOW!

And this morning I can say to those who whine on about not having mythos--fer cryin out loud, this episode shows that you can advance both together! And, um, hello? The story of Peter is PART of the mythos, tain't only about Olivia.

I loved the nod to us when we all know Walter is going to experiment on that agent he borrowed......lovely.

Oh, and points to us for knowing Peter wouldn't sleep in his bed the first night in their apartment....and points to BR for making the twist different. So they have a 2nd bedroom for when Olivia needs to stay over, that will work.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:57 pm

One more thing....

I hate Sam Wise.
The actor is fine, and I understand that Olivia isn't, or wasn't, up until this episode, able to even think of confiding in Peter, and that they want to show Ms. JustTheFacts opening up to different ideas in order to get answers.

And though I totally dismiss automatic writing, etc. as hogwash, what I hate about Sam Wise is his smugness, his rather creepy familiarity with her, and most of all, her willingness to submit to his unexplained directions.

She's repeating the story of Olive and William, Olive and Walter, with Olivia and Sam. I'm sure all three men see/saw themselves as only having the very best intentions. I'm even sure that for the purposes of the story that Wise is all or mostly benign.

What squicks me out is BR keeping on having Olivia be a subject of a man tinkering with her mind (and body). And Olivia allows it. She seems to just eat up being a victim, being a subject, being manipulated (her and John, anyone?).

Girl got GINORMOUS codependent issues, and they're getting worse, not better. She could have traced down her stepfather and done something-legal or not-to end his power over her. But she didn't. She tells Bell off, but submits to his direction anyway. For all her tough cop stances, she's not self-actualized, she's a willing subject, constantly deferring to men (oddly except to Peter, who isn't trying to make her into anything, just wants to be there for her).

Bad Robot, you can do better. Writers, take a peek at your own subconsciouses and attitudes towards women. Can you finally write Olivia getting past being a co-operative subject, and the authorities with answers in the story always being male (Nina defers to Bell, and sends Olivia to Sam to be "fixed")?

Allow her to find her own answers, thankyouverymuch, and to open up to someone who only wants to care about her.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:28 pm

Elliot wrote:
Hey Xeen! Glad to see you!

Nice scene where Olivia points out that she and Peter are wearing the same clothes, and that she thinks it's cute.

Though it is bitchy of her to keep rubbing it in that she graduated college and he stole it. (Combination of cop-judgmental and jealousy? --His IQ has allowed him to bypass all kinds of gates she probably chafes at, and he blows past rules he doesn't like or respect (same as Walter!)---yeah, she's likely jealous.)

The mirror at the end! Lez, did you get screen shots of that? Walter and what, planets or something, swirling in that other universe in the mirror? Mirror as portal.......so very Alice!

Oh, and points to us for knowing Peter wouldn't sleep in his bed the first night in their apartment....and points to BR for making the twist different. So they have a 2nd bedroom for when Olivia needs to stay over, that will work.

I found that cute, too.
I think she's a bit jealous, but mostly, I think she was really playing with him, like with the cane joke. And she seemed more jealous that he bought this for the other girls than her
Probably to show hime she's not like these girls who fall for anyone who pretends to have done something great ?

Maybe it's her way to push him backward ?

Mirror from the end scene


And also from the hotel scene


And yes, Peter didn't sleep in his bed ! grins

Elliot wrote:
One more thing....

I hate Sam Wise.

I like him. Maybe it is for us, shippers ? To make us angry.
And i'll like him even more if he tells her : "Find a friend. A good one. One who could hear what you have to say. Someone you trust."

And, you see her knocking on a door, that opens to let us see Peter. grins

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:40 pm

Thanks for the pics! That first one show Peter's interests: space shuttle, planes, what IS the rest of the stuff on his dresser?

I like that idea, of him telling her to find someone she trusts. If you read the rest of that post, you see WHY I hate Sam, and it goes directly to her giving over control of her life to others.

I really loved this episode, it worked for me as a mystery, as a cop show, as a thrill ride. And the characters are really getting fleshed out. Loved the instructions Peter gave to the FBI agent taking Walter home! Imagine what Peter's life is like, managing his psycho father.

I also liked that finally Peter feels safe enough to begin to confide in Olivia! That is a first for him.

---Did you notice the smileys seem frozen? And I'm having difficulty getting posts to "take", the page hangs.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:45 pm

Yes, I noticed.... I'll try to figure out asap.

Here's a better view :


Planets, space shuttle, and... err... "windmill" ?
And, if I remember correctly, that is the wrong date for the Challenger Mission ?

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:55 pm

Thanks for the pic!
The Challenger disaster was January 1986. It flew 9 times before that.
Over here.
Over there, who knows. As he died in 1985, that poster wouldn't have been a problem even if it did.

Yes, a kind of 'tinker toy' windmill---he was inventive even then! The plastic cylinder toys, someone else may identify. That is one creepy pic, with the man in the mirror and yet not on this side. Would give anyone nightmares, and of course it was a real thing that happened, making the subsequent ones worse.

Interesting idea of Peter's suppressed dreams---he will have to work through them, the way Olivia had to work through her memories of John, and her Nick-enforced dreans.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:57 pm

I got a big kick how they misdirected me, thinking because Walter was obsessing aobut his oven being left turned on back at home, a classical obsessive-compulsive sympton, that perhaps Olivia was losing her mind. Until I remembered upon re-watching that she had to do something "and not be afraid of the color red", and the taxi driver's shirt was very red.

All to find out Sam's somewhat mysterious power to make her find the combination of business cards, jumble the first and last letters of the 3?-4 people she approached, to have it come out "You're gonna be fine" to an Olivia who felt very much alone at that moment. *thumbs up*
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:08 am

It was Charlie's last words to her, right? Just seemed a long way
around to get to that. But at least she is finally beginning to unbend.

I wonder if the different teams of writers get together and duke it out over how to portray the characters...

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:19 am

No, I didn't remember it was his last words to her, not in the alley, back at the hospital where the character died? At any rate, I found it almost as consoling as she did. And a pretty Jedi force trick from Sam.
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:24 am

In the hospital. At least, I think so.

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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:01 am

Finally, I saw it !
Very good episode for me. I liked it much. Many things interesting. I like the storyline with the dreams and the nightmares, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde... It reminds me the main storyline with the shapeshifters and what is happened to Charlie. Poor Charlie. I miss you, guy.
Anyway. The story with the color red is interesting, too. I understood it at the beginning. Because of it, Olivia can make a phrase of Charlie : "you're gonna be fine". A message beyond the death. I think it's relevant with my theory : the color red as the faith, the feelings, the heart's movements. Irrational things. And last but not least, of course, the P/O scenes. Sweet moments *sighs*
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:11 am

lezario wrote:
Notice the number 47 ?

And the date on Charlie's grave ? Oct. 8th.

Yes ! And we have the number 13 too, at the beginning. I think there are many numbers in this episode. We have the RYB pattern, again ! smile)
(sorry, I'm not able to stop it, LOL !)
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PostSubject: Re: 2x05 "Dream Logic"   Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:17 am

Elliot wrote:

It was a great episode, wasn't it? And I loved all the humanness--Walter's fears, Peter's compassion towards him (and towards Olivia), Olivia's starting to confide in Peter (her willingness to disclose her inner state to him), Peter's disclosure to Olivia of vulnerable details---those were some powerful character making things.

Yes ! I totally agree.

Elliot wrote:

The mirror at the end! Lez, did you get screen shots of that? Walter and what, planets or something, swirling in that other universe in the mirror? Mirror as portal.......so very Alice!
(...)
The sudden aging of the bodies part doesn't hold up scientifically of course, but who cares? Glorious cinematography, action, lovely weird ideas, and Peter's nightmares.... YOW!
*clap clap* !!
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