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 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion

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How would you rate "Reciprocity" ?
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Total Votes : 5
 

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lezario
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PostSubject: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:31 pm

Promo trailers
Spoiler:
 

Press release
Spoiler:
 

Promo pictures
Spoiler:
 

Sneak Peeks
Spoiler:
 

*

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:25 am

Wow, they certainly advanced the Machine storyline.

Now, why don't they just let Peter walk up to it........nosebleed........

The short exchange between P/O, him on the stretcher, oh, to get into Fauxlivia's file...

I love Nina's face in High Def.

"We can get past it." Oh, Thank the Lord!


sorry for any blasphemy, but I've been waiting so long!


A weaponized Peter.

I love Brandon, too! Lez, please add Brandon to the list of favorite characters in the profile, I have a transitory attraction to my favorite lab nerd.

So. Why did Peter kill that last shifter, weren't they trying to get information? But, what a Kill, that hand, eeeee! Peter's out for revenge now?

And, the First People are starting to come to the forefront of the storyline. Brandon's beautiful speech about having enough time on earth for something like 8 extinctions to take place before we crawled out of the slime.

There was a faux calendar about the history of the world, people would appear on New Year's Eve about 8pm. All that time. Maybe this is where the Atlantis civilization might have made an appearance.

And, did anyone besides me wonder, they've got a picture With Peter plugged into the Machine, fire coming out of his eyes. But Nina didn't ask Peter to go over and check it out? It practically did a beckoning gesture to Peter at the beginning. I know, sounds like doom all around. But the temptation would be pretty big to step a little closer to It.

The Benchwarmers are huddling in this huge winter of their romance, Olivia reassuring Peter that Fauxlivia (and we have a winner name for the Other Olivia! ) did not think of him as a fool. I'm a tiny bit more charitable to her, what Olivia quoted out loud to Astrid that FauxO sometimes forgot why she was there. The gentleness behind his eyes. Nice contrast to Peter's face at the end. It's exhausting sometimes to this romantic. Compared to the sizzler on "Castle" Elliot, our would be lovers are moving at a glacial pace. *whines* I want a real kiss by the end of this season, please!

Something is propelling the writers now, it's nice to see the Machine plot coming to the forefront. I still get confused by the shapeshifters, they're here wholly to thwart This Universe, but then there's the nicer shapeshifters, like the cop who unfortunately chose his life over his mission.

Walter is going through some bizarre metamorphosis. I love fractured Walter. You can't always go back Home, with your intelligence when it's been Surgically Removed. But I have faith, John Noble can carry off almost any development.

I'm loving Nina taking charge of so much, and also Broyles and Astrid.

And P/O are moving closer to one another. Slowly.
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:21 pm

Whoosh ! I need to rewatch it, but a few things I can already say :

I LOVE OLIVIA.

I loved when she quoted Bolivia, it was a nice way to make her say "what she thinks but she's not able to say about Peter."
And when she puts her hand on his at MD.

Bad Peter. Bad.

At the end, a hand on Olivia's cheek would have be even better, but it's fine. We're making progress.

I love Nina and I love Brandon.

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:24 pm

*chuckle* Thank you! I was starting to wonder, hey dudes, where's all the wonder about this episode? They made a few leaps and bounds this episode, giving more direction in this dizzying, conceptual show.

Hey, I meant it about Brandon! He's my first "temporary" favorite dude, I shuddered when Other Side Brandon Marked Olivia for Dissection before they were going to send her back over here, yechhh! Brandon and Walter are the two most different between the universes to me. Fauxlivia seems a little more like her counterpart over here. And Alt-Broyles! His sacrifice to get Olivia back here to save Both Universes, *sniff*.

I'm glad they cleared B from suspicion, so bad it turned out to be the Head Project Doctor! Nutty Walter overprotected Peter in this situation appropriately, as it turned out.

So, why did Peter do that killing? Weren't they trying to extract information from the Shapesifters? How did Peter know to get to that alley, then kill the last two. Why was execution (hand scene, awesome! , but did Peter have to destroy them? Or, are they just too dangerous to deal with?

Last crazy question (who am I kidding, there will be more crazy ones), the Shapeshifters come over here in that bloody, wierd manner, we saw them getting "Born" in the warehouse. Fauxlivia getting ready to leave here, said something to the shapeshifter in the airport like, "I thought your kind didn't care about this war."

I have to see it again, too! I can't wait to hear what Matt Roush and other critics have to say about the episode. Think we've moved beyond the casual watcher concept Now?

The Machine Waits.
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:02 pm

Who's for walking Peter up to the machine and letting him try it on for size?

*pops hand up in the air, ducks*
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:51 pm

And we see Peter's bedroom ! grins

I was waiting for a little picture of him and Olivia (and Walter/Astrid), but nothing.
Well, a young Peter holding a soccer ball.

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:42 pm

Hmmm. I have a couple of pictures on my refridgerator, one of hubby and a friend in front of the Alamo about 25 years ago, and one picture of me when camping, also 25 yrs ago, looking much thinner and prettier. *shakes head* Oh well.

Yes, now that I think about it, my favorite picture (they couldn't take a snap shot of it, either) was toasting in the Middle Eastern bar. "To All That's Wierd." Amen!

And him grabbing her out of the tank in Season One. That was reproduced a good deal by fans.

We had some major eye sex in the show last night, Lez!

I swear, at one point, when he was following her to the door as she headed home, wouldn't it have been tough not to meet her by the time she gets to the door. Even just hold her a second or two!

*coughs, straightens up in the chair* Sorry about that, slipping into reverie......
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:20 pm

Quote :

We had some major eye sex in the show last night, Lez!

EhEh.

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:32 am

I would like to share with you 2 interesting observations:

1) The last 3 scenes in succession: first people's book--> Peter--> the machine

2) At the end of the episode the machine is lighted up, while in the first scenes it only came to life in Peter's presence! At the end of the episode they show us a weaponized and creepy peter who looks himself in the mirror and then the machine with it's components lighted up! It's like the machine was reacting to Peter's changing! O__O

Before: http://img691.imageshack.us/i/3x110084.jpg/

After: http://img406.imageshack.us/i/ultimascena.jpg/
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:15 am

jade86 wrote:
I would like to share with you 2 interesting observations:

1) The last 3 scenes in succession: first people's book--> Peter--> the machine

2) At the end of the episode the machine is lighted up, while in the first scenes it only came to life in Peter's presence! At the end of the episode they show us a weaponized and creepy peter who looks himself in the mirror and then the machine with it's components lighted up! It's like the machine was reacting to Peter's changing! O__O

Before: http://img691.imageshack.us/i/3x110084.jpg/

After: http://img406.imageshack.us/i/ultimascena.jpg/


good observation!!!!you are right!!!I loved this episode I thought Firefly would be better than this but I was wrong!!!!this is the best so far!!!

So now we are going to see dark peter... is like the machine has infected peter .....love this!!!
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:12 pm

Yes the machine definitely affected Peter but it's quite clear that it depends on peter's state, both physical and psychological, and probably something else!
I wonder if, in the next episodes, we're going to see the effects of his new "state", other than his dark side grins
I mean some cool stuff grins
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:24 pm

yes!!! It's what nina said...a lot has happened to peter and he has all this baggage inside him. The machine brings this dark side up. grins
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:35 pm

and one more things about this episode ...

what about Broyles almost car crash??....I think it's important. Looks like olivia's car crash... scratch

and when Nina told walter about Peter getting help....I thought inmediatly about Sam Weiss. I know we are going to see him later maybe in the season's end...so maybe Nina will convince Peter to go to Sam Weiss for help....who knows!! smile


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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:38 pm

Ohhhhh can you imagine the meeting with "Peter, the god in the first people machine" and "Sam Weiss, the first people"? Awesome! grins
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:44 pm

yessss!!! I want to know more abot Sam weiss!!! I would like to see a meeting with peter and him too.

grins
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:24 pm

Oh and the Observer was.....
Spoiler:
 

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:52 pm

Hallelujah! Hi, Fan-Folk!

"Dearest Mr. Pinkner - As one of your biggest fans, I have a humble request. Since occasionally you'll do a nod to fan board fare, could you please have someone say the phrase "eye sex" on a show down the road? Perhaps Walter grumbling to Astrid about Peter and Olivia's recent bout of it? It would be soooooo cool! Lez may have invented the phrase, I'm middle aged and a bit fuzzy on memory, but it's a Benchwarmer phrase, and you know we're still here, huddled in the snow, waving at cha!"

Sincerely! Me! grins
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:06 pm

grins as long as it is Peter and Ourlivia! Otherwise Pinkner will get enternal hatemail.

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:13 pm

Indeed. grins


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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:05 pm


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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:07 pm

good episode.
It was good to see the looks between P/O and the kind of "peace" in their relation.

Our Peter as also a bad boy ... I'm not sure he's changing as Walter says ... in the pilot he was describe as a guy who is not very net ... and also in the midle East scene, the man he met seems to think he's a bad guy... or with the man who beat his previous girlfriend.
So is it the device influence or only him, thinking the war which is becoming between Walternate and our universe, justifies the violence he done.

He's full of goodness yes, but as we say in french "si tu veux la paix, prépare la guerre" would apply to him too
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:25 am

?not very net?

I do not think the machine changed him. He was killing th shifters before he was in the room with it.

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:05 am

Interesting episode. I just hope further down the track we get more of an explanation as to what is going on with Peter. I'm always asking for this, but it never happens. This quote from elsewhere says exactly how I feel, "I think we are so used to having to fill in the blanks for Peter's mental state and character development, that when the writers finally choose to turn a spotlight on him, it seems glaring and harsh." I think it does seem like that because there has been relatively little build up.

So, much has happened to him in his life and I don't think he deals, or has learnt how to deal effectively. His conman ways we were introduced to in the pilot, were one of a man who is unsettled in life. As a boy he knew something was different about him, his Mum committed suicide and his father goes to an institution for 17 years. I think his new found Fringe family helped to settle that side of him. However, all the relevations he has faced, since the end of season 2, one after the other, after the other, has made that side surface again, due to him not dealing with them. Finding out that he was duped and used by Bolivia was the last straw. I think Olivia outright rejecting him (which she had every right to do), was the start of him cracking. Glimpses were there in entrada.

So, I think it was the above but also the machine as well. The machine is having an impact, otherwise why make a big deal of it re the scene of Peter looking at himself in the mirror, transposing into the machine in the hanger. I think the breakdown had started before he saw the machine, but once in contact, the machine has now enhanced his mentality. At least Peter acknowledged to Walter that something was definitely happening to him. They just need to work out what to do before Peter becomes totally consumed. (I assume that is where they are going with this).

Interesting to see where they take this now. Lots of theories running around. Peter needs help and Walter and Olivia are the ones, I suspect that will help him. If not, then I can see it all consuming Peter and the killing off, of the character? Is that where it is headed?

I thought the writing for this episode could of been better. I'm not a big fan of episodes written by Josh Singer.

They tried to cram so much into this episode, it made my head hurt. It was still very enjoyable, as I love seeing multifaceted characters and they added a few more to Peter in this episode. However, I wish we had a bit more of a build up to this Peter we are seeing now. It would have made it much more compelling, rather than scratching my head for most of it, with finally understanding it in the last five minutes.

Yes, to P/O moving on. No, to another big obstacle being put in their way. Hopefully, further down the track it will be Olivia that helps Peter get through this darkness that is now seeming to engulf him.
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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:50 am

Hey there! I wondered what you thought of it.

Like you I'm muddled by the writing. I'd been thinking he was overly cool and collected after the machine revelations before, and Olivia's return, he seemed sunny and jokey, compared to Olivia's sorrows. So when Reciprocity opened and he was obviously killing, and hiding it, being weird to Walter, that was a shock by comparison. No buildup to his emotional change.

The writers COULD have had a scene, even one, with him being growly or remote, to ramp up the emotion.

The spoiler-interviews with Josh allude to him breaking, I suppose this might be it. Also in one of those duo interviews with him and Anna she says something about him having really intense scenes coming up, in the same interview where she says his bout with fakelivia is forgiveable, so I think this is the beginning of that breaking.

He will of course not die (unless we get Dallas-ed into a yellow universe as a result), he's the star power for straight female viewers and 1/3 of the characters. I think Olivia will save him (she always saves everyone) so I am not worried too much about that.

I was annoyed at Olivia basically giving a pass to fakelivia but I think that is the only way the writers could think to move them past that, and however they do it, let's get on with it. It's time to let up on those two, they've been through hell.

The 'reactive' line is meant I think to do two things: kick Peter into active mode (he has been quite the lump of inactive man-candy for a looong time) and echo his anger at losing Olivia the first time.

I think he realized the fake and his father had taken her from him again, this time not by killing her as his father had nearly accomplished before, but by killing their relationship. That malice--and the fact the fake was sent not to take him home but to manipulate him for getting the machine & its parts, would be enough to tip you over the edge. Olivia's ties to him will anchor him, bring him back.

We still have to see some return to Olivia's needing to keep him by her side, as told by Bell; it seems more and more it is for his protection, funny that, because if he is this ultimate power source, she could use his energy to travel between worlds or whatever....

I think Josh has perhaps the hardest role in Fringe as he must NEVER know what the heck he will be doing/feeling/emoting from week to week, one week sunny the next week serial killer. If the writers gave as much attention to his roles as they do for the other two, we could see some fine work, they never stretch him.

The messiness in writing bothered me a bit, but not as much as the terribly shaggy cosmology & physics does. Peter left mercury smears all over that last house, just before Olivia got in, and the FBI forensics missed that and his blood under the doctor's fingernails... unbelievable. And that he never questioned any of the shifters, just slaughtered them, yet he took the info disks---bad writing.

I think we'll see him being more and more morose, but the weaponization thing is already getting blown out of proportion I think, and will leave that till I see more.

But at last we are moving forward, it wasn't entirely the gloomathon of torturing Olivia and for that I am grateful.

The doctor said there was no indication of how the machine responded to Peter, but I think he was lying, being a shifter and all.

I did have one laugh, where Peter snaps at his father that what he was doing wasn't wrong; he sounded very much the 9 year old boy.

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PostSubject: Re: 3x11 "Reciprocity" - Episode Discussion   Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:27 am

Hey, there Elliot.

Uurgh, to the writing I agree. The writing was muddled too for Peter's other episode last season. What? Can't they get good writers for Peter.

Agreed with most of your post. Let's just hope we are right. To me he has cracked. He's just not thinking rationally at all. He's on a mission, but I do think the machine has enhanced his mission mentality. I just hope they keep on dropping little seeds in the background of the episodes from now on. So, that we see this storyline continuing to develop each episode. Rather than, not show anything for many episodes, then come back to it and expect us to accept the development that has happened. (They've done that previously in other seasons).

I would really like to see Peter and Olivia bond over this bleakness that is consuming Peter. It doesn't have to be sappy or romantic (I'd hate that), just well written scenes with Olivia helping/supporting and trying to understand Peter and what he is going through. I think it would go along way to cementing their relationship with the audience.

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