2x21 "Over there - Part 1"

What if walter, during his confrontation with william bell, somehow began to remember his life before he went to S.Claire? Maybe he will remember why specifically peter is "special" (maybe the observer told him but he doesn't remember), the experiments he did on him, and why he did it ecc...

if something does escape, it's because it's a commercial technique.

For example, software you can download on the net, there are not posted by users - there are posted by companies. Same for some spoilers. They do that on purpose.

And i'm not accusing Jade, I'm just accusing the guy who said that.

It's ok Lezario, i understand

jade86 wrote:

Indeed! It's the first time i'm so obsessed with a show and his characters

Oh, me too! I loved the X-Files, and liked Twin Peaks, but I LOVE Fringe. Over the top, really.

*wonders how much re-runs FOX will do this summer, of if we'll have Thursdays off... *

I liked X-Files too!
But onestly i have to say that Peter and Olivia are cooler than Mulder and Skully

And much more believeable as humans!

Funny-- the other show I watch now is Castle, and when I watch it, I think how much more 'real' Fringe feels than Castle...it's less arch, less silly, I guess I mean.

Oh...and i won't die until september after the season finale, because there will be the second season in Italy (21st of may). So, i will rewatch the show in italian language and if i'm correct it will finish within the end of july

Lucky you!
I need to order the dvd of season 2 so I have that as soon as it comes out.

Quote :

season in Italy (21st of may). So, i will rewatch the show in italian language and if i'm correct it will finish within the end of july

With any luck, here the second season will start in June, like the first season.
We had a great time with Xeen, Stephy and fringerfan to rewatch the episodes, and even more to hear their voices in french. And expressions or words...

lezario wrote:

With any luck, here the second season will start in June, like the first season.
We had a great time with Xeen, Stephy and fringerfan to rewatch the episodes, and even more to hear their voices in french. And expressions or words...

Sure. It was so funny and sometimes so... depressing !

Well, I thought about the reflection in "Over There" recently. I think we have a great episode about this theme. We've already known that it is a central theme in Fringe (see the thread about the reflection) but this episode is fabulous... It appears very clearly.
Besides, this theme is not simply about the physical reflection. Throughout the first season we have had many shots about the different meanings of the self-reflection ("mise en abyme").
For example, a frame into another one (the screen):
_
(it could be cool to identify all these shots from all the episodes)

Moreover, the reflection is the core of the second season (see the official posters)
_
(and only Peter can't see himself in these promotional posters - of course, because... you know why)

We have a lot of examples of reflection shots as in "Brown Betty":

And the theme in "Brown Betty" is exactly the same, but on a funny and old-time mode. I mean, the self-reflection on a narrative mode : Walter's telling a story with himself as a character (and all the members of the Fringe team, a special version of themselves).

I'm sorry to go back over that, but it's so fascinating to search the clues inside the episodes... And to discover how the directors and the writers play with that. In "Over there", it's really interesting. I found many shots related to that idea. That's why I think it's a great episode.

For example, the scene in the theatre is fantastic. First, we have a stage :

As I said earlier, a set inside another one (the set of the show with the real people - actors and so on. That's exactly the cinematographic self-reflection).
Of course, the reflection is a metaphoric comparison with the two worlds of the Fringe storyline. That's the point : the reflection and the self-reflection in Fringe are just this idea that we are into two worlds, not exactly but almost the same.
After that, the characters, standing on the stage :
(nice shot, by the way)
They form a circle that is the shape of the infinite figure - endless self-reflection again. And the turning camera amplifies the movement.

When you freeze the movement, you can see that this circle is exactly a self-reflection figure : a superimposing of identical outlines.

Besides, the circle is recurrent in this episode, it's not a coincidence.


All these shots and reflections serve to prepare us for the encounter with the alternate people (the "first people" ?), a reflection of ourselves. In this episode, especially between Olivia and AltLivia (she can see herself - another herself) :



What do you think about this theme ? It's so interesting to notice how they use the russian dolls' effect between the reality (our world), the world of the show (Fringe world 1.0) and the alternate universe (Fringe world 2.0).

Last but not least, a few caps, again

Nick Lane's balloons (Bad Dreams !) :


Another RYB :


Exit Team 1 :


Exit Team 2 :

(As Kriesler said, what about "exit" sign ? Do we have any lead ? They come in and the others come out or something ? What about the crossover between the two worlds ?)

Wowww! You're right! There are a lot of reflections! *_* Do you know fringebloggers.com? Roco's observations about the episodes are always very interesting. I'm sure he'll discover a lot of clues in "over there, part 1". I cant' wait

Yay Stephy! Thanks for posting these. I have a few more reflections caps to post, or if you have them, go ahead: the mirrory vase or lamp base on the table while Peter is looking at the blueprints, for one.

We do need a new reflections discussion, we have let those slide.

Why not make a post 'reflections in season 2 finale' and one for 'colors in season 2 finale' and we can all dive in?

jade86 wrote:

Wowww! You're right! There are a lot of reflections! *_* Do you know fringebloggers.com? Roco's observations about the episodes are always very interesting. I'm sure he'll discover a lot of clues in "over there, part 1". I cant' wait

Yes, there are a lot of reflections, everywhere ! It's fun !
I know that website, but I haven't visited it since a few months...

Elliot wrote:

I have a few more reflections caps to post, or if you have them, go ahead: the mirrory vase or lamp base on the table while Peter is looking at the blueprints, for one.

I didn't see that ! I have to rewatch it !

Elliot wrote:

We do need a new reflections discussion, we have let those slide.
Why not make a post 'reflections in season 2 finale' and one for 'colors in season 2 finale' and we can all dive in?

Why not indeed ? It could be interesting to collect all the clues about these themes ! By the way, what about the RYB theory ? Do we have any new lead since the first season ?

Stephy wrote:

Elliot wrote:

I have a few more reflections caps to post, or if you have them, go ahead: the mirrory vase or lamp base on the table while Peter is looking at the blueprints, for one.

I didn't see that ! I have to rewatch it !

Elliot wrote:

We do need a new reflections discussion, we have let those slide.
Why not make a post 'reflections in season 2 finale' and one for 'colors in season 2 finale' and we can all dive in?

Why not indeed ? It could be interesting to collect all the clues about these themes ! By the way, what about the RYB theory ? Do we have any new lead since the first season ?

We don't, and we should, the way they have been pressing it on us, especially since 'Brown Betty', it's like they are desperate for us to figure it out.
Red may symbolize OverThere, and Blue, OverHere... but what about Yellow? They've said just two universes.... is the R-Y-B unity?

Do you want a thumbnail of this for your thread?

Quote :

Peter seemed bothered by the blueprints from Walternate. He's smart enough to realize that the machine probably isn't for fluffing pillows or creating rainbows. I'm not sure why Walternate would give him the plans for a world-killing machine, unless (a) he still thinks of him as a sickly eight-year old, or (b) he thinks that Peter shares his desire for stopping "the pattern", or the plans are fake, and it's just a way for him to get Peter to sit in the battery casing while Walternate uses Peter's life energy to power up the doomsday machine.

Elliot wrote:

I didn't we should, the way they have been pressing it on us, especially since 'Brown Betty', it's like they are desperate for us to figure it out.
Red may symbolize OverThere, and Blue, OverHere... but what about Yellow? They've said just two universes.... is the R-Y-B unity?

Yes, you're absolutely right. It's really frustrating to miss the meaning. I don't know what to think. I'm lost... But I'm sure that it is important, as you noticed it in your art thread with this screenshot :

Elliot wrote:

It can't be there by chance !

Elliot wrote:

Do you want a thumbnail of this for your thread?
(...)

Thank you for this ! I missed that shot... I can dot it, thanks

Blue, yellow, red are also the colour's sequence that Peter used to save Walter's life in "grey matters"

good point, I had forgotten that !

All "Spotting..." threads are in the Episodes Section.

RYB, GGGR, Reflections, B&W...........

Um, ok . . . I just thought the finale maybe merited its own discussions on this topic, as it is so dense, like a movie.

Please, Stephy, (and Jade and Lunastelle), gather up your research and ideas and post them there so we can keep going! I'm eager to discuss this with folks with new insights and ideas!!

Lez, how about links here to those threads, so the discussion can keep flowing?

No, I meant all these in the Second season, there are threads for that.
You can keep discussing the finale here, that's why i created this topic.

Do you notice a certain similarity?

Exactly.

Except Peter has his pants on.

Yep, Vitruvian Man. See why I was saying the drawing was a call out to Leonardo?

My guess this morning: the 'prophecy' paper was faked up as a reason to have to use the weapon.

Guess # 2: Bell will sacrifice himself to save Peter and the universes by stepping into that machine himself, with his unstable energy, or destroy it and himself, with his energy. Wouldn't that be a cool way to end your acting career in sci-fi, to save two universes?