2x21 "Over there - Part 1"

Yes, anger, love, fear....... all three together... but on a higher level than Olivia, maybe.

I say especially angry because as Olivia wasn't able to show fear until "jacksonville" episode, maybe Peter has a similar problem with angry. He has never lost control completely until now.

So was that cortexiphan BadWalter was treating him with? You'll note when he came back there was no funny stuff about him having to be hooked to iv's and sleeping for three days.

I think fear and anger and love will all tumble out and trigger him when he finds Olivia is in trouble...... the same way Walter went outside the bounds of known reality to save Peter.

Tree--Apple
Tree
Tree
Tree
Tree--Apple.

Apple Apple Tree
Apple Tree Apple
Apple Apple Tree
Tree Tree Apple.

If both fear, angry and love will activate peter's abilities...Oh god....The result will be catastrophic O__O

Silly goose! I was making a diagram, not an anagram.

Yes, I think the results could be catastrophic--as Walternate sort of understands, and wants to channel for his own bad uses.

*reminds me of the parallel in "the Same Old Story", where the Penrose father and son are working together to kill women, and the Bishop father and son are working together to find and save them.

Peter jury rigs a defibrillator (by tearing up the mains by hand and re-wiring them hot, by the way; not something a regular man could do safely) and Walter helps him know what voltage/amperage to use.

Observing the prophecy, i noted a couple of things that i would share with you

- At the angles of the parchment, there are maybe half moons in different positions and in at least one of them there's also an eye (in low to the left). Is it the Observers's symbol?

- The superior part of the machine looks like a pediment of a temple. If you observe closely, there are some decorations typical of the ancient temples.

Click to enlarge

For the temple, I agree that the sup part looks like one.. especially like one of these abandonned indian temples in the jungle (the wires look a bit like creepers.)

The moon in the angles, I think someone already mentionned it on this board.

Was it you, Elliot ?

And what about the eye?

The eye, I have mentionned it earlier... i didn't know what it could mean, but we talk about Freemasonry today with Elliot, and one of the masonic symbol is an eye in a triangle/pyramid.

Could be linked.

Yes, i read your teories about Freemasonry

Oh, ok ! I didn't know if you did have the time to.

It was me, and I am not certain those are moons... or what exactly they might be. If they are moons, they are all crescents of the same phase.

Some of the writing we talked about earlier too... have I mentioned that this looks like some of the writing is ghosting through from the other side of the page?

The small lettering more black is on the side with the drawing, I believe, and the larger writing that is reddish I think is on the other side, so going in a different direction.

What looks like vines to you looks to me like the parts visible in the image of that room with the infernal machine--- it is ghastly, there are gear-looking things which look rather like saw blades. I used it in that 'death star' image in my art thread.

Creepily enough, they have used (OK, made to look like) this is on real vellum (animal hide). Check out the fibers on the corners of the deckle. This would either mean it is supposed to be very old, or from a very official source.

And just how many copies of this image of the machine and peter have we been shown? This doesn't have the dna in arabic letters as the others do.

This one is in the device room, the one given to Olivia has the DNA writing.

So one was written by some people, and someone translated from this language to AGTC.

...or, vice versa, from arabic letters to this language to make it look older.... as we don't know the provenance. If BadWalter is willing to lure Peter with lies about this being a benign device, he could have been part of a scheme to pretend it is a prophecy and so must be obeyed.

I think BadWalter is a bit insane, you must be insane to want to sacrifice your son.

If I remember my art history classes well : " עקדת יצחק "

God asked Abraham to sacrify his son, Isaac.
He's about to kill him, avi/beni, a angel appears, messenger of God, and tells him to stop. And, instead of sacrifying his son, to kill a ... what is it in english ? A ram ? (Bélier)

I'm not sure Walter intends to sacrifice his son. If this old machine can work only with Peter's DNA, it couldn't kill him. About the writing, do you believe it's arabic and not from the Observers?

What I meant is Walternate won't kill him directly.
But being attached to that device and using his power could kill Peter.

And it certainly will kill him.

Mmmmmm i don't know...I'm not sure...

lezario wrote:

If I remember my art history classes well : " עקדת יצחק "

God asked Abraham to sacrify his son, Isaac.
He's about to kill him, avi/beni, a angel appears, messenger of God, and tells him to stop. And, instead of sacrifying his son, to kill a ... what is it in english ? A ram ? (Bélier)

Oh, he intends to kill him, all right.

The machine would kill him, and activating it with Peter would be his way to punish the other universe for taking Peter, and Peter for not coming back.

Lez that story is one of the things that I cannot accept in Christianity unless it stands for the place in time when the Hebrews and other locals realized human sacrifice was wrong. No parent would worship a god that required such a thing---the ram out of the thicket is something no loving (and well in the head) parent would accept as payment for being required by a god to offer up your child to death. It's jut not possible---like saying, please hand me that piano, or please cut off my legs.

But a man with megalomania (does BadWalter have tertiary siphyllis? He doesn't seem florid enough) or other delusions of grandeur, or a boundless hatred, might see that as a logical thing to do.

My one hope in this is that yet BR will pull some rabbit out of the hat and make this all a faux-prophecy, as in someone getting hold of a document of the Observers showing Peter in this danger but saved, and then working backwards to make it look like a prophecy, or something.

Because much as I love Peter Bishop, I will be revolted if they make him a god, or a religious sacrificial figure, a supreme being with the power to cure universes.

It would be too lame and tacky for words. And Fringe doesn't need to cater to religion to be serious. Science fiction needs to get over its little-brother to "serious fiction" complex.

I don't think the prophecy has to do with Peter's sacrifice. I'm sure there's another meaning connected to science and not religion. Maybe Walternate wants exploit the prophecy and Peter's powers to destroy our universe, but we don't know if the machine is so dangerous for Peter's life. To me it would be too obvious

I could see Peter as "the chosen one", but not as a sacrifical victim.

I don't like this scene either, I just thought I remembered this when you said "Walternate is going to sacrify..."

I'm not Christian, and there are a lot of reasons why.

We had the chance to meet a bonze once, who told use there were no "gods" as we called them, only a quest for knowledge.

I agree with you on the symbolism this appears to be using. And the other things too.

Fringe has kept its head and its sense of humor, and as they had Walter's tulip from God come really from another scientist, I don't think BR will jump the shark and have Peter be Krishna/Christus Apollo.

I'll be smacking them upside the head, hard, if they even think about it.
"She may be small, but OH MY."

Jade, you and Lez might have fun looking at that vellum and these symbols to see if you can decode more of the lettering; I've already found several of these characters in it. I have to go become an out-door busy person, I look forward to seeing what you come up with!