3x04 "Do Shapeshifters Dream of Electric Sheep ?" - Spoilers

New sneak:

I was looking for that one this morning ! Couldn't find the YT version, the one on Fox website didn't work.......

The eye is ..... brrrrrr.

I like it. And wow, Newton shoots Broyles? Or at least, at him? Oh, and Puleeeze, can Fakelivia stay out of the eyeliner? She's starting to look like a raccoon. Maybe there is a kohl shortage Over There?

(The FOX website almost never works for me, I peek and pass by. Takes foooorrrrrevvvverrr to load; not worth it. You'd think they'd notice the duration of visits and do something about it.)

I love Newton.
And Sebastian Roché. I heard he was in France right now.

I'm glad they are finally moving forward with the shape shifter thread, they draw things out too long for me. They need a copy of Strunk and White, I think.

And now, baseball................ though, you know, if there is, *ick*, anything I don't want to happen this week, happening, ... I could really love baseball. Prefer it.

Buzz Sugar - Set Diary: My Day as an Extra on Fringe (5 photos)

They're really working the refs, aren't they? What's next, giving Ken Tucker a guest shot? (Don't tell me he was one of the extras...?) Getting pretty needy.

Times are hard

That last 'Over There' promo got on my nerves. I'm thinking they are NOT getting the love for the alt-u (in viewership #'s) that they thought they would, and are rather desperate to salvage the experiment.
Pinkner was all but demanding we like the other side better than ours. And the people too.

I suppose if you have that much footage already 'in the can', you are stuck with it, even if the viewers are walking away. Getting the tv reviewers to act as extras is different, how, from buying reviews?

Well, Elliot, they are making all of our side act like/look like idiots, so that people will like the altside better. Peter in particular. I mean if they have to dumb down the characters on this side and destroy the character of Peter, just to get viewers to like the altuniverse and their relationships better, then somethings wrong. If you write characters well, then viewers are going to like them anyway.

I just don't get it. Why are the writers taking this route with this side? I know they probably have the whole season mapped out and this is all part of their master plan, but will viewers be still around to see the end of the season? Surely, there are alot of other things they could be exploring, which they've dropped or started and haven't come back to?

I've no idea why they are taking this route on this side. I wish I knew. I know they wanted to shake things up, but I think they have gone too extreme too quickly. Expecially with Peter. Also, I'm not buying altOlivia and the way they write her over here either. There's just too many inconsistencies in how she is playing Olivia, that it takes me out of her scenes all the time. I know that is because of the way that Anna plays her, but for me it is really jarring. It's nowhere near as jarring in the altuniverse.

I love all the characters and have a real soft spot for Broyles and Peter. I feel for Josh actually, because out of all the characters on Fringe, his character is the one that is just all over the shop. Peter's not consistent and he must wonder all the time what they are going to make his character do next. I also feel, that out of the three main characters, Peter is the one I feel like I know the least. Not sure if the writers want it that way. Personally, I think Josh does a great job with the little that they give him. I feel the same way about Jasika and Lance.

So, it will be interesting to see where they go on our side now. Whether they can make the repair of the damage caused, realistic or not. I'm assuming that's where they are going, ripping all the relationships apart, so that they can rebuild them again further down the track. Personally, I would have loved them to delve more into the Peter/Walter/Walternate triangle. However, I don't think we are going to see that anytime soon.

Yes, Josh must totally wonder each episode what person he is. No wonder he sprung for the role in UFO, probably sees the handwriting on the wall and wants another gig as backup.

They really have dropped the ball on Peter's character, haven't they? There was so much they could have done with him, and they have left him a cipher.

And I, who love reading mysteries and watching detective stories, want them to get to the point, because I don't think Fringe is going to be having a 4th season, and I am still vaguely interested in seeing how they fininsh the war between worlds story.

I think they may try with re-editing what's shot but not televised, to undo some of the damage this episode will cause, but wonder if they will succeed. I had a feeling last year that they responded to fan distress over Olivia being basically abused by Walter and having that be a good thing (She's Special Because of Cortexiphan and Will Save the World)---classic abuser excusing stuff-----------she did confront him, but that wasn't really satisfying, and she came to care about him too easily.

So I can totally see some lame apology and forgiveness thing between her and Peter...which if I am still watching I will need a bottle of scotch to get through. And it's too bad, because they took a nice subtheme and perverted it.

Yes, I wanted to see more of the Peter and his fathers triangle, to have resolution there, but I don't think we're going to get it. BR is fixated on making the other side all warm and fuzzy and bunnies, so they will now hit the brakes and make Walternate be missing his son. Yeah, right.

Totally agree about having left him a cipher. That's the thing everytime they indicate that they are going to delve into Peter's background/situation/feelings they drop the ball.

They made such a big deal about him being stolen from the other side, but it was all Walter and then Olivia finding out, but not telling. So, when he does find out it is one scene. Then in Peter's episode, they explore it a little, but just not enough for me to get a handle on this wave of emotion that was there for him. Peter comes back from the altuniverse having left his mother and father behind and nobody asks how he is doing and what his mindset is. They just have him go into a full on romance with altOlivia, because really it's about her and trying not to get caught and her deception of Peter.

I mean you get the picture. It's never about Peter perse, but using his character to take the story where they want it to go, with regards to the other characters and the story they want to tell. I'd love for the show to be ensemble one, but I knew it wasn't going to be from the beginning. However, for a character that is suppose to be a major part of the fringe mythology, we just never seem to get to know him at all.

I know the writers have said that Peter has his own storyline this season. However, they said that last season, and it didn't really eventuate. It was really Walter's journey and Olivia's at the end. That's fine, but why mention it? So, I'm not holding my breath. This is the season of the Olivias and I know Josh mentioned his storyline was going to be in the background. (That's what he would have been told, but the writers change things all the time). It also looks like the Walter and Peter estrangement/issues with his kidnapping, has been sidelined as well, for the time being.

I'd quote to reply with the bits I agree on but it would be the whole thing.

And just add, it is really a shame, because there is so much they could do through his eyes. I've been through parental betrayal, it is monumentally, profoundly changing. I was also raised by someone not my father, who was more a father than my own ever cared to be. And that was also profound, and realizing that was freeing.

Ol' Peter Bishop though, never gets to even express that stuff, let alone experience it. Like moving furniture across the room, suddenly he's home. Olivia, meanwhile, spends an eternity in a cell, strapped to tables and injected (and no, I don't want to have to drag Dr. Freud in here, but there he is...), fooled into giving up her identity by that nice Secretary Bishop and those superior beings over there.

All of that was as you say, in service to the Olivia(s) story, and rather clumsily told. Skeevily enough, I think the romance was kicked into gear solely so they could have last night's betrayal--which is a betrayal of Peter as well as Olivia, really. She doesn't love him, and she will have taken from him and Olivia something that can't be gotten back.

But in the rush to make the Other Side the Best, they likely won't explore that either. And Peter continues to be the lost umbrella, the replacement goldfish, the useful idiot.

It must make Josh's head swim, to have so many story lines promised and then taken away from him. What was he doing in Iraq? In China? With the mob? What about that magic touch of his, why is Olivia supposed to need him by her side?

Do you think they will address any of that?

It's hard to say if they will. I'm inclined to say no, only because up to now they have dealt with little about Peter. I suppose it could still be on the cards further down the track, who knows.

I hope I'm not saying this has to be the Peter Bishop show, because that is not how I feel at all. That was never the intention and I wouldn't want it to be. As I've said I mostly love all the characters, but I just continuely get frustrated seeing them not go there with Peter.

I agree with everything you said. I could totally see them only focus on Olivia and her handling of the betrayal and not tell Peter's story with regards to that much at all. I mean they could, and I would hope so, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't. The show has always really been about Olivia first and Walter second mostly but the main focus will always be Olivia. That's how the show was set up.

I know Josh was disappointed about Peter being brought back so soon. I was too, because I was really looking forward to see him interact with Walternate and his real Mother and becoming attached to over there. However, as it turns out he was taken over there, only because they wanted a means for Olivia to go other and then be stuck there for season 3. Though he did learn about the machine and the fact that's why Walternate wanted him back, so I suppose that's something.

Josh is a team player, he loves the show and like the other castmembers promotes the heck out of it. He has actively promoted the other side and the new characters this season. So, he's all for the show and the direction they are going and what they are doing this season. However, I'm sure like some of the other actors, he would love the writers to be doing abit more with his character.

Agree all except-----not, the show being set up to be about Olivia.
It was set up to be about (well, Walter first, and then him and Peter---Olivia was to be the way the audience gets into their little weird world)---------about all three of them, with alternating storylines, but each was to have an equal chunk. I've read enough interviews and commentaries to be sure of that.

What happened? I think FOX liked sexyOlivia so much that first year, all those tank scenes, that the production crew and writers, 117% male, went with their pants. Story coherence fell by the wayside.

I remember them saying the audience skewed male; I also remember looking at stats, and the various fanboards, at the time, and that just wasn't so, at all; but the target audience that Fox wanted to advertise to-----------young males.
So, ignoring the fans that they do have (sci-fi watching and reading folks, mostly women), they went after the boys. Which leads naturally to nearly naked Anna, Anna with a gun in her hands (Hi Dr. Freud!), Peter flirting with her and anyone, and -----to last week.

What's also bizarre, is that WTF? Peter was so pissed at her betrayal and Walter's he left the universe, agreeing to never come back. And now he's moony over her at the restaurant, and f***ing her? Two episodes back?
Obviously, they aren't developing his character at all, just using him as a foil now. They say he will get a big through plot this season, but I'm not holding my breath.
Like you, I thought after he came back there would be some discussions, some scenes with him and Walter (not the I can't talk about it kind), where you see what is going on in Peter, how hard it is for him to deal---and not that flossy one on Olivia's couch. Which was totally set up to get him onto the couch.

-----------> Long story longer: I think we have several conflicting things being written at BR HQ:

• The War is Coming (not really moving forward on this one, they don't know what to do with it)
  
• Olivia in her underwear, menaced by some creepy men (doesn't need a plot, any more than a porno flick does)
  
• Look How Smart and Cool BR is, We Write About Alternate Universes--Really, It Makes Us the Coolest TV Ever
  
• How Dare You not Love them? We'd better make Over Here ppl stupid
  
• We Had a Story about The Pattern But We Lost Interest in It/ etc.
  

If the writers kept forgetting last season which episode they were filming, and making mistakes as they filmed, imagine how screwed up things are this season.

Yes, I agree they are not developing his character. How can you when you change him constantly to fit in with plot story arcs.

The writers, because they continuely, change them, seem not to read or watch past episodes. If they did, then they would know that they make Peter look stupid based on what they proclaim he can do in previous seasons. He reads people, he really notices things in Olivia. Except in season 3 all of a sudden he cannot read people and he's not noticing blatant changes in Olivia. Just maddness! Things like this and there are heaps of others to do with plot points and other characters during the seasons of Fringe, continually take me out of the show.

This whole uproar over what Peter has done to Olivia, has shown me though, that viewers don't really care for Peter as a character. They love him because he loves Olivia, but now that he has betrayed her, they hate him. I think this is the whole problem with Peter in general actually. Peter is always attached to someone on the show. For season 1 and part of season 2 he was part of Walter. The audience saw Peter through Walter and their relationship. Then his relationship with Olivia became more developed and people saw Peter through Olivia. As a character on it's own, not so much. I think this happens when you don't develop a character enough for people to become invested in his story and his wellbeing.

I think that is really sad, because he is a very complex and interesting character and there are so many things you could explore, some of which Elliot you have mentioned already. However, unfortunately, the writers don't want to go there. Well, not at the moment, since this is the Olivia's arc. Who knows how long that will last for.

Well, all I can hope for is that the writers know what they are doing. I know this season is all about choices and their consequences. However, sometimes I want over here to lighten up abit, but that is certainly not going to happen once they realise that they have the wrong Olivia. It's going to angst times a thousand.