3x15 "Subject 13" - Spoilers

Eheh. Indeed.

They wouldn't kill Peter off.... or they would have to deal with hysteric Josh fangirls.

He's 1/3 of the show, much as he's been my favorite, the producers and actors have all said that the show is about the three of them, that the focus rotates from walter to olivia to peter and on and on...... no single one of them is the main person.

Which frankly, I prefer; when it looked like Olivia was everything, and Peter just her snarky assistant to Olivia's super-hero, that was annoying; it would be annoying to have Peter some god-figure and Olivia a mere mortal; and to have them both have superpowers and Walter just be an old geek with bad digestion would be embarrassing. I love that all three are equals. It makes for dull storytelling if the other two are minor characters and any one of them is everything.

Here's one quote (no details, sadly!) from Pinkner about years 4 and 5:

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The truth is we've been setting up season four in brushstrokes very early on in season two, and we've been setting up what we imagine, with luck and grace and hoping we stay on the air this far, we've been sort of setting up season five since season one. It's just a matter of whether we have the good fortune of getting to tell these stories," said Pinkner.

It's just too much to ask for them to be equals.

?too much to ask?

Well if peter dies in the end of this season....I'm sure it won't be permanent.after all, this is fringe .In "6b" walter told peter, he and bell wondered what would happen with the body's energy after death and bell theorized it was posible to capture the energy using "soul magnets".....is it posible this bell's theory will come to play as a way to save peter's live??if peter "dies" in the end of this season...maybe they will use this theory to bring him back from "death". Knowing bell I'm sure he has the design of "soul magnets".

"bell and his secrets"

Peter won't die--I'm sure of that. W/o him, all the Noble fans and Torv fans wouldn't be able to save the show.

I keep thinking the "my son will be responsible for the end of the world" and the "choosing which one he loves" drek from Sam Weiss are misdirections. Obviously they want the story to go on, and if the world ends, that can't happen.

Maybe that piece of paper is something else entirely.

He won't die.

I'm sure Peter is not going to die, he is a main character.LIke I said before , at least in a permanent way. also the word "reanimation" has been present since season 1. the fist time was in the pilot, when olivia and peter were in the plane talking about walter's job. And this season it appeared again in "marionette".

Oh, yes; and --I don't think they'll even "tease" kill him, that would be too much agony on top of this season, I am really thinking they will go in a different direction with it------------the pregnancy is going to not develop normally (godzilla?), the reveal will not be expected------------ sounds like they are prepping an explosion to look nuclear......... (though maybe if they had the machine go, that might be it??)....... but no, no killing off any of the main three.

We've talked about this before, but although we have three main leads, really I think we have two, that being Walter and Olivia and Peter is a supporting lead. (Saw that elsewhere, and I actually agree with that).

Peter only gets the focus when they want to move the show in a new direction. They used Peter to introduce the concept of an alternate universe at the end of season 1. They used Peter to introduce the audience to the world of the altuniverse by taking him over there at the end of season 2. Peter became the love interest of the Olivias, so that we could get to know/understand the Olivias better and now he is the dummy in the machine to introduce the creation/destruction of worlds by it and the two universes going to war because of it.

So, I could see them using him as the big cliffhanger in the finale to propel them into the next season (if we have one). They will probably make him die, but the question will be "Is he really dead?". They will only kill Peter off permanently, if they find another character to take up the plot device mantel. Could I see them doing it? Yes, I could actually. It would be a big shock and I could see them doing that, to bring viewers back to the show, who have left. According to a poster elsewhere whose father does a little bit of work for Fringe, he has heard rumours that the First People will be introduced next season and it's going to be something that' never been done before. So, if it's a new concept with new characters, I can see them doing something huge maybe, to get new viewers to the show. The first people thing is only a rumour though, so probably best to take it with a grain of salt at this stage.

If they get a season 4, which I think looks doubtful at this stage, to kill off any of the three leads I think would be absolutley awful. I just can't see how they could do that, since the whole show from the beginning has been based on the three characters. Unless, I suppose, they finish up the story, that they have been telling for the last three years and season 4 would be embarking on a totally new one. I suppose they could get rid of characters and then start a fresh with the new ones. To me that's a copout. I know they have the storyline planned out from start to finish, but you can continue to write good stories for your existing characters. They are not doing that at the moment and it's always been a big problem of mine of the show. The writing for the most part is average and they can't write for an ensemble if they tried. They need better writers, who can actually write for a complex serialised show. If you can't write for your existing characters, then getting rid of them and replacing them with new ones is only a temporary fix. Bad writing will eventually follow you, for whatever characters you use. Writers just fix the ones you have spent several seasons developing. If you make them more interesting, fun and not moping around every second, then you might be suprised what the ratings will do.

Maybe the reason Peter gets such short shrift is on the Y chromosome of the producers?
What they SAY and what they DO with the characters do indeed differ, but the producers have said more than once that it's the three of them together that make the show, not any one.

I've thought for a long time now what they could do with the destruction of one or both universes, I called it the Dallas option before, but that only works if they keep at least one of the original characters (somebody has to point out that it was a dream that JR was shot, you know?)--and in that case, the only one reasonably able to survive universes being destroyed.... and created.... is the one causing it.

Which would mean Peter would be the only one to live--it would be him and the machine and the Yellow Universe. Except--Yellow Peter wouldn't want to disappear, or have a double, would he? And if he's the ONLY one to have a double, that decreases the Torv screen time and the Noble screen time too.

But rather than kill off Peter totally, I think they'd do the Yellow universe thing, starting over. Makes my teeth hurt though to think of all that retrograde motion. Plus they used to say there would only be the two universes. The idea of "fusing" the universes by melding Fakey and Olvia is just completely creepy and dehumanising, and really doesn't fit with the warm and beautiful '6B'.

And while it's theoretically possible to kill off Pacey, they won't kill off Pacey because, hello, fangirls.

On S4 being all about the First People.... sigh. That doesn't sound that interesting, does it? Diluting our focus again with other characters nobody cares about?

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Bad writing will eventually follow you, for whatever characters you use. Writers just fix the ones you have spent several seasons developing. If you make them more interesting, fun and not moping around every second, then you might be suprised what the ratings will do.

Exactly. I think the move forward on the part of Peter and Olivia is them beginning to see that the Depressathon is in fact, depressing the ratings along with the viewers. You keep cutting off the viewer's fingers, they quit watching.
The Bachelor:Universe thing is too embarrassing for words.
The only folks who are still really excited about blue versus red seem to be the payola reviewers; most everyone else wants to go back to developing Peter and Olivia and Walter, and cases.

I think that tomorrow's episode has a good chance of doing that; the promos look very interesting.

....sigh, though......... Josh wasn't nominated for a Saturn award , even freaking Seth Gable was.

I do wonder what goes on in people's heads.

I don't think season 4 will be all about the first people, but personally i find very interesting that part of the story, especially if the first people have connection with peter, the machine and maybe the observers too. Exploring those people could mean understand Peter's true origins ( i have this strong feeling that peter could be one of them ) and his importance

I keep hanging onto that interview with Josh and Anna where he says he's had it easy this season, and she says "But your time is coming!" about the rest of the season; it would be sooo nice to see him finally get a lot of screen time when he's not just doing reactions or one liners.

He'd get nominations for things, if they'd give him the screen time! And Peter's character we haven't really explored, we know more about fakey and altwalt than we do about Peter, I sometimes think.

Tomorrow's episode should provide a lot of answers about the past, and I'm excited to see that; and to see what Peter does to help 'find another way'.

I'm with you about the next episode that will surely give us important hints about peter's past. And then, in episode 16, the machine will come back and we'll probably understand Peter's motivations on killing shapeshifters. Judging from 2 pics from that episode it seems that he did his independent researches until now in his secret lab. This can confirm that, while he was with the team working on the cases, at the same time he went ahead with his personal projects. Episode 16 will give us the results!

In a few words, i believe the next two episodes will be very interesting for peter's character

yes I agree. Tomorrow we will know about peter past and also olivia's. I'm very excited.

And in episode 16 we will know(I think) what peter has found out about the machine..from his shapshifter killing.I love this plot!!!I want to know what is the connection between peter and the machine and first people!!

racoca wrote:

yes I agree. Tomorrow we will know about peter past and also olivia's. I'm very excited.

And in episode 16 we will know(I think) what peter has found out about the machine..from his shapshifter killing.I love this plot!!!I want to know what is the connection between peter and the machine and first people!!

Did you notice the transition of scenes from first people's book to peter and than the machine at the end of "reciprocity"?

first people - peter - machine

What an intriguing connection!!

I thought the producers established he was killing the shapeshifters to protect his family (Walter and Olivia)? It sure makes sense to me, he said to Walter "they're here to kill us." He's tired of just reacting, he wants to protect his people.

jade86 wrote:

racoca wrote:

yes I agree. Tomorrow we will know about peter past and also olivia's. I'm very excited.

And in episode 16 we will know(I think) what peter has found out about the machine..from his shapshifter killing.I love this plot!!!I want to know what is the connection between peter and the machine and first people!!

Did you notice the transition of scenes from first people's book to peter and than the machine at the end of "reciprocity"?

first people - peter - machine

What an intriguing connection!!

yes!!! and, of course, that is not a coincidence!!!!

I hope to see william bell soon....I believe he can give us a light about first people!!

Elliot wrote:

I thought the producers established he was killing the shapeshifters to protect his family (Walter and Olivia)? It sure makes sense to me, he said to Walter "they're here to kill us." He's tired of just reacting, he wants to protect his people.

I thought the guy who interview the producers said that in his opinion peter kills the shapeshifters to protect their family. Yes, he does that to protect his family too but, if i remember correctly, the producers said that his motivations have especially to do with his connection with the machine.

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Jeff Pinkner and Joel Wyman will be live-tweeting the episode tomorrow.

tvonmyterms via twitter:

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# @jeffpinkner @JPFringe @JWFringe I just finished watching Subject 13. It made me cry.

# Despite the absence of Anna Torv and Josh Jackson, tomorrow night's #Fringe is NOT to be missed. Brought tears to my eyes.

# @FringeOnSet Yes I have. It's amazing. Actually brought a tear to my eye for the first time ever.

# The kid who plays Young Peter in tomorrow night's #Fringe episode is amazing.

TVGMMattRoush

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Writing up preview raves of Friday's Fringe and Supernatural eps. Both worth staying in for. (Especially Fringe.) Also: Spartacus finale.

TVOnMyTerms

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@TVGMMattRoush Little Olivia made me choke up. Such a great episode.

lezario wrote:

TVGMMattRoush

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Writing up preview raves of Friday's Fringe and Supernatural eps. Both worth staying in for. (Especially Fringe.) Also: Spartacus finale.

TVOnMyTerms

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@TVGMMattRoush Little Olivia made me choke up. Such a great episode.

This is great to know. For some reason, I have higher hopes for this show than I have had for most of the other shows this year. Gosh, 3:41pm Thursday, I've entered a black hole and time really IS slowing down for me!!