3x18 "Bloodline" - Episode Discussion

Wot, no discussion?? Is everybody out sunning themselves?

Here's the numbers (via FringeLatino):

3.01 "Olivia": 5.83 millones
3.03 "The Plateau": 5.19 millones

3.05 "Amber 31422": 4.97 millones

3.07 "The Abducted": 4.93 millones

3.08 "Entrada": 5.13millones

3.09 "Marionette": 5.27 millones
3.10 "The Firefly": 4.90 millones (1.9/6)
3.11 "Reciprocity":4.57 millones (1.9/6)
3.12 "Concentrate &...":4.30 millones (1.7/6)
3.13 "Immortality": 3.7 millones (1.4/5)
3.14 "6B":4.1 Millones (1.5/5)
3.15 "Subject 13: 4.04 millones (1.5/5)
3.16 "Os": 3.8 Millones 1.5/5
3.17 "Stowaway": 3.8 Millones 1.3/6

3.18 "Bloodline": 3.9 Millones 1.5/5

(-------so Andre Royo is a bigger draw than william Bell!)
I saw only parts of the episode (surfaced from my paperwork long enough to see my man Henry Higgins putting the agents in their place; loved that!) and saw Walternate get creepier and creepier.... and the (imo) incredibly manipulative not-quite-a-death-scene. As with the 'Marionette' re-death scene, funnier than sad.

Glyphs? Were there glyphs? Did they say anything? Easter eggs? I saw the Observer (duh), but missed the other bits.

As surprising as it is, I totally loved the episode.

I don't know if it was the conditions in which I watched it, or because it was well written, that it felt like a little movie, independant from Fringe.
I got s****d into it, and completely forgot that it was Peter's child, that it was Altliv, etc.

I really liked it, in terms of writing, filming, storyboarding, lighting, rythm and music.
Don't know who's the writer but he/she deserves a prize for this.

I cried when Altliv was delivering her baby and Lincoln thought she'd died.

Seeing Royo again was absolutely nice.

And Walternate and Brandon being as evil as usual.

And I think Altliv and Lincoln belong together.
And Charlie with the bug girl.

*

Elliot, the Glyphs spelled

Spoiler:

You thought it was well written? Must've been an amazing first 15-20 minutes.

Granted I only saw the last half or so, it just felt utterly predictable.
Nothing shocking, no twist, just...Nemesis' plan went forward, the woman was elevated to sainthood by having a baby, the knight in shining armor was there for her, and snarky Charlie gets a clue.

Faux wasn't even ever sick, and got away easily, so the danger didn't seem real. It seems that whatever magic makes everyone over there have a better life than the ones over here (except for Rachel and William Bell!) is still holding.

There was not one thing that surprised me, and that was disappointing.

The girls wrote the episode Lezario, and the few episodes that they have written this season have been very well received.

I think they have written four this season, but I'm not sure on that. Mainly altepisodes and 3.09. They need to write more, because their episodes are mainly well written.

Looks like Lincoln is the new hero then. They've made him into a very likeable character and seems to not have too many character flaws either. Outgoing, funny, shows his emotions on his sleeve. The writers ticked all the boxes with this character, and why wouldn't viewers like him. Have him declare his love to what he thinks is a dying Bolivia, while declaring he will look after her child. I think the writers ticked all the boxes and more.

The episode was really predictable and knew they wouldn't kill off Bolivia, they have to much to mine with her character. I wonder why Walternate wants the baby? Lots of reasons come to mind. I can see him taking the baby and caring for it, with Bolivia getting visitation rights whenever she wants to.

It's a pity and I said this elsewhere here, that they haven't put the same amount of energy and goodwriting into the over here episodes ,like they have done with the over there. They were so gungho about getting everybody to like the over there, that they assumed that mediocre would be ok over here. Not ok, writers.

After this, I still don't like Bolivia. She ruined people's lives on her mission, and she could tell what Walternate told her wasn't true, but she still went on with trying to complete her mission. Despite, what she was doing to Peter and the team. She has shown no remorse what so ever for that and didn't seem to blink an eye when she knew she was the cause of AlternateBroyles death.

justkickit wrote:

The girls wrote the episode Lezario, and the few episodes that they have written this season have been very well received.

I think they have written four this season, but I'm not sure on that. Mainly altepisodes and 3.09. They need to write more, because their episodes are mainly well written.

Looks like Lincoln is the new hero then. They've made him into a very likeable character and seems to not have too many character flaws either. Outgoing, funny, shows his emotions on his sleeve. The writers ticked all the boxes with this character, and why wouldn't viewers like him. Have him declare his love to what he thinks is a dying Bolivia, while declaring he will look after her child. I think the writers ticked all the boxes and more.

The episode was really predictable and knew they wouldn't kill off Bolivia, they have to much to mine with her character. I wonder why Walternate wants the baby? Lots of reasons come to mind. I can see him taking the baby and caring for it, with Bolivia getting visitation rights whenever she wants to.

It's a pity and I said this elsewhere here, that they haven't put the same amount of energy and goodwriting into the over here episodes ,like they have done with the over there. They were so gungho about getting everybody to like the over there, that they assumed that mediocre would be ok over here. Not ok, writers.

After this, I still don't like Bolivia. She ruined people's lives on her mission, and she could tell what Walternate told her wasn't true, but she still went on with trying to complete her mission. Despite, what she was doing to Peter and the team. She has shown no remorse what so ever for that and didn't seem to blink an eye when she knew she was the cause of AlternateBroyles death.

Yes, they are playing Lincoln up mightily. He's a facile androgenous character, complete with eyeliner, tailored to please like this whole episode was.

Like you, I wish some of the effort spent on making ThatSide popular had been spent on developing ThisSide too, and like you, I can't forget how callous Faux is, how ready to climb over the bodies of whomever gets in her way. She's not the alt-livia, she's the Anti-Livia. The same with Walternot.

It would be an outrageous, really cool twist, to have all this effort spent on forcing us to like ThatSide better, only to reveal in the finale that they are, indeed, monsters, that they are all quite willing to destroy ThisSide.

That would put a huge jolt of WTF!!! in the veins of the viewers who love the zeppelins and the shiny toys, wouldn't it? Having decided they love all of them, to have them turn out to be not better than ThisSide after all, but true foes. And have a real war happen.

The only thing I find interesting about the two worlds is that Walternate and Faux do dastardly things, including trying for years to kill Olivia, and wrecking Olivia's life---I've lost track of how many people Faux killed while she was here, but I add Alt-Broyles to that total------Walternate planned from Peter's childhood to destroy Peter's relationship with Olivia, he kills all sorts of people, etc................. all of that; and (here's the interesting part) Bad Robot insist on trying to make us like them, making excuses for them, and in the case of Faux, using lighting, clothes, makeup, even supporting actors' adoration to campaign for her pre-eminence over Olivia.

More than once I've seen comments and blog & tumblr posts that seemed like they were written by the BR press office, fawning over Faux. And with the cameos given to reviewers, I'm thinking they might have done that too.

BR makes Walternot and Fauxliva nasty sob's, but tells us they're the victims and that we should like them. Do they think we will look past the adulation of Faux, or do they not? And what are they aiming at?

I liked a lot this episode!!! hate walternate !!! The thing that bothers me is when altlivia said the father was some guy she met in a bar, and she is going to rise the baby alone.....
I feel so sad for peter.....he has no idea he has a son....altlivia slept with him when he thought he was his girlfriend olivia and after all the pain altlivia has done, she is not going to tell him anything about his son....that is selfish and not only to peter but her son.

and the idea of altlincoln and altlivia raising peter's son like altlincoln is his father makes me hate them.....

Honestly, that's not how it works, racoca. Just being a sperm donor doesn't make you a father, nor does it make you have feelings of love or concern for the infant in question. So don't go all feeling sorry for Peter's perceived worry or love for the baby.

He might feel he needs to contribute financially, yes. But love? Not.
Faux never loved Peter, he doesn't love her, Lincoln loves her, she loves herself, she will be fine.

Peter loves Olivia, and would love a baby they created; but an accidentally made baby with the woman who lied to him and nearly kept him from ever having the relationship he really wanted (with Olivia)? No way does he love that baby. And he would be fine with Lincoln raising it.

Anything else is just playing into the "let's stick a knife in Olivia's heart, and Faux is better than Olivia anyway" love triangle stuff--------which is killing the show's ratings.

it's not important peter hates altlivia, the baby is his son!! and i think it will be terrible if he is aware he has a son and does nothing to know him or be with him. I'm not saying he should dump oliva for fakey...he is in love with olivia and hates altlivia....he can still have a relationship with olivia and at the same time being a father for his child. anyway the producers said he is not going to find out about his son this season...

by the way so cute the baby!!!

Surely the most virulent antifans of AltLiv had to hope after a second or two in Lincoln's arms that she would wake up. I'm assuming the preclampsia meant that she would die of a stroke while giving birth.

Yep, that had to be the most quiet birth in history, , but I breathed a sigh of relief seeing that AltLiv would survive to raise her son.

Walternate still had the baby's DNA checked to see if the baby was related to his son. When he finds out for sure, I think he'll let the baby stay with AltLiv for the moment. When he decides to take the baby away from her, if he does decide to do that, it will be pretty interesting. Unless he persuades her to go along with most of his plan (she won't find out about the sacrificial portion, though), the baby would have a mother to stabilize his growing up.

I think it would be great to have Lincoln raise Alt-Peter, but then I'm a big fan of Lincoln. Lincoln's androgenous? To quote Sue Sylvester describing Kurt Hummel as having "the complexion of a young milkmaid." It reminded me of Lincoln. He's pale, alright, but he's still manly in my book.

The baby wasn't Peter's choice or desire. So I don't think it's necessary for Peter to know about the boy. Unless we want to save Alt-Peter from his grandfather's Machine.....*thinks*

And, will Walternate accelerate the baby's growth so we soon see an Alt-Peter? It will be pretty interesting to see a grown man look at Peter and say, "Hello, Dad."

They said she had already decided what to name her son. Who wants to bet it's "Peter"?

Actually I think she names it 'Walter'. And from reading here and there, I'm fairly certain the Lincoln on this side is more interested in Peter than in Olivia.

Bloodline would have been more beliveable if it were less manipulative, but this whole season has been manipulative, the birth, the seduction and the marionette revival were only the most egregious. I don't hate Faux, I just want her off the story. I liked cases, and science, even pseudo science; I adored Peter and Olivia and Walter working together, charging about doing crazy stuff, and the fun weird dialogue between the three of them. I really miss that stuff. Now, I often find myself saying "Really?" like that woman in the Jane Austen Fight Club vid.

And since the producers say nobody on any of the websites' guesses have been correct about season 4, I'm happy to think that we may be dropping the battle of the universes thing for something completely different!

Aww, really? I'd Much rather the baby be named Peter than Walter.

No, Lincoln over here doesn't have any interest in Olivia. But to suggest Lincoln has more interest in Peter, don't be gayin' up Lincoln, now! I can't help it if I think the man with the complexion of a milkmaid is cute. The actor who plays him is married to Ron Howard's daughter, so he's got to have Some kind of charisma. *purses lips, shakes head*

It's difficult to argue points with SpoilerQueens, since you go into areas I don't want to be spoiled about, but I'm glad nobody has guessed what will happen in Season 4.

You're right, I miss the old days with the three of them in a professional triangle.
The Benchies wanted a romance, but the writers didn't want the same kind of romance. So they gave the viewers a romance, but not the one anybody wanted.
So when Olivia and Peter finally physically came together, it was bittersweet, and a lot of the hormonal ecstacy was taken out of it.

But now the triangle is changed forever, that's what happens when a romance is introduced. Now Peter and Olivia have this back-burner kind of romance, but it's still secondary to what's going on in Fringeworld.

Now we'll just have to see what they reveal, and hope it will be something to get excited about.

It was just hints from sources I don't really know much about, and a couple of the pics... and the loving way the camera lingered on his farewell to Peter.

It doesn't matter to me, he is a quite likeable character, whatever his orientation; sunny, witty, curious. I'd hate though to have the ThisSide team further diluted... my man Peter hardly has any screen time at all anymore. So I hope his visits are that, visits, not a permanent slot.

The way that BR trashed the romance that they set up was particularly malicious. I've never watched a show before and gotten the finger from the writers. Plus the way they made Olivia whiney and suspicious was a letdown.
And--you, married lady, know romance does not have to be twisted and doomed to be interesting!

I've seen on other fora (there are other fora for fringe? who knew?) that people are in denial that Walternate could have been behind the kidnapping or doing anything to the baby. Like the whole "please step into my death machine, son" never happened, or that he hadn't been torturing Olivia the first half the year. My guess is that fans of Noble don't want to believe any character he plays could be bad. And that if Walternate does kill Peter and our universe, they will find a way to be OK with that. Very odd.

Okay, so this universe's Lincoln *cough, cough, wheeeze!* might be attracted to Peter. But more likely his character seemed more interested in the Fringe Science than either Olivia Or Peter.

Walternate started out as sinister, and whereas I thought they ('the writers') made him a little more sympathetic, he's still a long way morally from where this side's Walter is. The way he pulled the blinds down on Olivia at the end of last season is another example.

Switching characters, nobody has a wider difference between the two universes as the Brandon on this side and the Brandon on the other side.

Darn! I hate it being down to my last hour of work. I have to go soon. I've glumly begun to think of this as a 5-person forum, with all my admiration and affection for those 5 who have worked so hard to keep a dialogue going. That being said, it must be difficult for you, Elliot, to not hate moderating this show if you're so angry at the writers.

I came to terms a long time ago that the writers didn't want to have a romance as the focus of the show. For whatever reason. I didn't follow "Alias", and only watched one show, but I remember the two main characters' romance bugged some people. There IS an infamous practice of the Showmance, where it's a lot easier to play being in love with someone if you're having an actual romance.

Remember when Jackson was berating the idea of a romance between Olivia and Peter? Didn't that start right after Anna and Mark Valley got married? The timing on THAT was pretty odd. As odd as Anna and Mark getting legally separated, but not getting a divorce in 2010. The romantic in me wants to believe that they'd give it another try when their shows end.

Long story short, Elliot, you must come to terms with the writers and find a way to love them again. If you really, truly think the writers 'gave us the finger', how could you moderate this forum, much less follow the show? If you're going to follow it, you can't boycott the Alt episodes.

We can disagree with the show, but we can't make a steady diet of insulting the show. That's just not cool. Be true to yourself. If you can't forgive them, give them up. Of course I'm hoping you won't give them up, and I'm sorry we're not allowed on other forums where sarcasm is as highly prized as love. I can't help that the moderator for that website was hideous enough to hack my email to Mucca when she had a meltdown, and that was the real reason I was banned, because I called Rocco an a**hole for banning Mucca. But the only other time I went back to PonyLand, I saw an entire chapter on the reasons He/She banned an entire list of usernames.

So the rest of you guys, c'mon, don't let me and Elliot be the only ones on this forum to have lively disagreements, come on, be vocal, and don't fry your home computer like I did. I typed in fox.com and some mischevious troll fragged me with viruses..........Later!


......edit....."Ponyland"......

The dvr numbers from last week's Fringe brought its ratings up quite a bit:
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/03/28/live7-dvr-ratings-house-tops-abolute-gains-fringe-tops-gains/87313

Review of Bloodline from IGN http://tv.ign.com/articles/115/1157727p1.html
(previous reviews are there too, to refresh for discussions)

folks ... I'm still here but i'm so in late for watching the ep that i don(t speak much about them.

But it's my pleasure of the beginning of the week : reading your discussion... and hoping one day i could participate with less than 2 or 3 ep late

Oh, please do discuss! We will enjoy your thoughts, you add a lot! And really, anyone can add thoughts, chime in to discussions, or add things, to any episode discussion. It makes it more fun for all of us, and we learn new things!

It's so nice to see you, fringerfan.

I just needed to vent a little. This is such a nice forum, and we should be able to attract a lot of Fringe fans. We have 100 members with so few responses. I'm not trying to compete with "Ponyland", but the other sites I've visited are hardly more than message boards.

I know it's a bit of a hassle for the European members, who can't see new episodes until the next morning, to gush or groan about the most recent episode.
But we should still be able to attract some US members and UK and European members.

So what if there are not many folks to watch it live and blog? The art from members here is so nice, and opinions are varied and interesting. Even the Josh-squeeing is entertaining!

So, here's to finding more voices for this small but earnest website!

Sept. 22nd, rewatching until "Fringe" comes back

The first time I saw this show, it was okay, things moved on well. It's another reference to Chinatown. Until the very short scene (four minutes) with Lincoln, AltLiv, and Henry in the Chinese shop, I was still struggling with liking Bolivia.

The entire show comes to a halt in the seconds after Bolivia gives birth. She looks dead in Lincoln's arms, but the baby is okay. They probably knew they wanted to hire Seth Gabel to inject some new life into the show before then, but this was the wakeup call for me. The sudden silence had the wake up effect that the fan generated "Where is Peter Bishop?" had when the card fell over next to the sitting dog.So funny then! Whoa. Come back! I never felt a pang of affection for Bolivia until that moment when she looked dead in Lincoln's arms. Good job, writers.

Lincoln's complexion is perfect for "Fringe". It's paler than you would expect from a leading man. But his voice and eyes in the birthing scene Slayed the fangirl in me! I can't wait to see the repartee between Lincoln and Peter in Season 4. Peter, quit worrying about your job being in jeapordy! They need your help!

Charlie gets Henry's ID: The cab driver's name is Henry Arliss Higgins.

Henry Higgins! "My Fair Lady" ?

Bolivia is Eliza DoLittle? Well, maybe I can carry the allusion only so far.......

Well, since Higgins ends up marrying Eliza, that would be cool; I liked Higgins.

Back to a more serious observation.

It took several views to see it, *G*, AltLincoln gently rocks AltLiv as he holds her and she strains to give birth. You can barely see it. It's so senuous!

Well, maybe it happens more in my head than on the screen.

What a pity if it were never to have happened.

It didn't feel cliche' to you? It was so telegraphed, the moment she was having difficulty with the pregnancy, that this was going to be the "swelling strings and tears" scene. Like a Hallmark tv movie: Fakey's a murderer and liar, but give her a near death scene and a baby, and *poof* she's a saint. Straight out of Warner Brothers 1949.

True, there's not much chance of me liking her, but the scene could have been not so overdone, and I wouldn't have laughed so much.

For anti-climactic, clunky scenes in Fringe, this is #1, the marionette dance is #2, and I'm not sure but maybe adult Peter holding child Olivia's hand is #3---all made me squirm. The marionette dancing was supposed to be oddly moving, and was instead, painfully funny, like this birth scene and its hyper-sentimentality; the LSD scene was just kind of icky.

Hmmmm. Yes, the first time I watched it, I wished Bolivia ill. Seriously. She had caused enough damage, and I wanted her dead.

But, and that's the big butt, even I stopped the moment they showed her face in AltLincoln's lap. Her face was so still, a rudely selfish person that she'd shown herself to be faded when she was willing to Sacrifice Herself. This showed up once before, when Peter had raced down the subway tunnel. She suddenly, and surprisingly, showed a robust willingness to sacrifice herself to save Peter, which is what she was instructed to do. She didn't know the baby, but she felt the primordial urge to protect the baby, at risk to herself.

Maybe they could direct Bolivia just a little bit better.


Jeff Pinkner! Do you want us to love Bolivia? Or hate Bolivia? Please, give us a clue? So, the next time one of them say how much they love Bolivia, and they show her teasing Charlie before going onto a raid that he had bugs. She didn't have bugs, but she might have caught them and she's Still being tacky. You kind of have to like her. Not for long!

As Peter fans wear down (apparently because they don't know when Peter will be back), and cuss everything, I must admit I want to throw my own threat out there.
Don't let that 4 minute shot in Chinatown disappear. For any potential AltLincoln/Bolivia fan, that would be the death of a timeline. Please? I like this character, I'm apparently not alone in that. No, he didn't blaze onto the scene like Michael Emerson or Jared Harris. He's slowly fading into the scene, after debuting as that leg-strap wearing, cocky AltLincoln who loves AltLiv more than he cares about anything. He's charming, c'mon! And that's AltLincoln. 'Regular' Lincoln, we've only just begun to see what he's like. So far, Very promising! He may not be Michael Emerson, but in my opinion he's making the most of every appearance, so, he's on his way to Emerson-status. *starts chanting so that I hope that I haven't just jinxed him*