3x12 "Concentrate and Ask Again" - Episode Discussion

"Fractionally", still puts a positive spin on the numbers, at least?

I felt a little bad, so I'm thinking of some good points.

Nina is awesome as a person in charge on the show and works so well with Broyles.

I really enjoy comparing how people are different or the same as their counterparts in the other universe.

I think of Brandon as refreshing comic relief. Then he can be serious and create dramatic tension as well as any of others. But the skin marker dashes Olivia had in the other universe showed AltBrandon in monstrous light.

Brandon's my most exaggerated example of how different people can be from their counterparts in the other universe.

Broyles was admirable in both universes. I haven't got my top 5 shows yet, but I'm pretty sure one of them is going to be where Alt-Broyles sacrifices himself, even with a wife and child, for the Hope that Both universes will survive.

I guess if the show's cancelled, they can deux ex Machina, wrap it all up and the Machine will be able to repair the tears in the universe, not blow them up.

I haven't gotten tired of the show yet, even if choices makes me mad.

Spoiler:

I hope Fringe continues to play with science and horror and doesn't go away.

Melting man, pretty good gruesome death of the week!

I started watching fringe when they finished second season, and from my point of view this is the best season so far. I know a lot of people didn't like this episode because the "triangle" and everything, but I like this episode, not the best , but I liked it. I like the storyline, I'm not going to judge till the season's end. I want to see how the story line and characters develop. I love P/O, although I have to say I am a shipper since this season...of course I want them to be happy, but I'm looking for long term resolution and not for what happen in a single episode. I am enjoying the whole arc and I love the characters . I'm really excited about next episode !!!I want to find out more about first people, the machine,Bell....so I'm just going to be patient

sorry for my english

about what sam weiss said to nina ....what come to my mind is "don't trust sam weiss" anagram. i think he simplified the whole think and he didn't say everything just a part...but we will have to wait how this plays out.

I'm watcing fringe since the half of season 1.

And I must say, except they could have handled the Bolivia/Triangle thing completely differently (Peter would have noticed, Bolivia would have helped them...), it could have been an awesome season, with the over here/over there concept (only if this concept had stopped with "Entrada").

I've watched it since the beginning, I was the ultimate fan... the Ultimate Peter Fan, remember that? Remember when Fringe was a fun, smart show, that didn't pander to the lowest common denominator? When the writers cared about all the characters, and didn't have a kink for torturing Olivia? When Peter wasn't a lying scumbag, Walter didn't have to pee and tell fart jokes every episode?

If it's just *too hard* to write anything except third rate farce and bad relationship porn, get new writers that think outside their pants.

You're right Cathy, nothing bad will ever happen to Fakeolivia, because she is better than Olivia, and the writers like her; she will end up with Peter--------oh except for the last 12 seconds of the series finale, where he will realize that he missed the boat and he loves Olvia and *wah-fricking wah who cares*.

Cause all the fans will have stopped watching before that anyway.

Creepy.

lezario wrote:

I'm watcing fringe since the half of season 1.

And I must say, except they could have handled the Bolivia/Triangle thing completely differently (Peter would have noticed, Bolivia would have helped them...), it could have been an awesome season, with the over here/over there concept (only if this concept had stopped with "Entrada").

I like this season very much, of course I agree they could have handled the triangle in a better way but I also realize that I can be a 100% agree with the choices the producers make. I still have this joy when I see spoilers and whatch a new episode...

I don't make screencaps of the eastereggs anymore...

It's sad. It started out so well... if the science was fuzzy, it was still based on cutting edge stuff; it was atmospheric and stylish, they broke stereotypes (the brainy guy didn't sit on his hands, he kicked ass; the lady cop kicked ass even more; the mad scientist was spooky and odd but not a cariacature; there were fantastical things going on, conspiracies, clues--it was engaging on a bunch of levels. The hints of romance supported the show, they did not drive it (so they didn't drive it into the ditch). The three main characters were brought together, then grew to want to be together... cared about each other.

Now though: the science is truly bad, the cosmology is hilarious, our side is made out to be the bad guys, the other side is a bunch of killers but the writers likes them better, and our characters are either buffoons or cruel or pathetic. It's a depressathon.

Much as I think fakelivia deserves to have cockroaches hatching out all over her, I will skip next week.

Maybe the machine will turn out to be having feelings for fakelivia and peter only broadcasting that and really care more about Olivia, but I don't know if I will care enough to watch and find out.

No, Lez, I don't make screencaps now either, and I have no interest in making fanart now.. and I have noticed that here and on other forums, including tumblr, the well of fanart for fringe is drying up. People don't care, or find it all too creepy and sad to want to look at again.

I'm sure there were clues galore in the stuff in Bell's office, but I'm not going to watch it again to look at them.

...

Ok, Im' going to stop here and leave the thread for this episode discussion.

Going to add bird pictures on my website.

Probably best!

Here's a poll:

Since--unless they really ARE tired of doing the show, and intend to crash it (possible but doubtful)...... there is likely some sort of squeak-out excuse for last night's disemboweling of Olivia...

Will it be that
---the guy misunderstood Peter
---Peter has feelings for it but they are negative
---Peter has feelings for it but only because of the machine
---Peter has feelings for it but after horrible suffering on the part of Olivia, he gets over them
---Peter has feelings for her but stifles them out of loyalty to Olivia and the benchwarmers are basically told to stfu
---or????

Extra bonus points if the excuse involves the fate of the universe NOT depending on Peter's sex life.

You called FauxOlivia "it" a couple of times there, Judy, intentional I"m sure.

Postscripting my character/universe opinion, FauxOlivia has some of the same qualities as Olivia, but also has a few similarities. Why tell a deaf man you're sorry behind him before you blow his brains out? I'm not ready to do an Olivia v FauxOlivia character evaluation. I read producers want us to like FauxOlivia. HUGE change in perspective,and it might make the show more interesting if not for....

It's one thing for Peter to love FauxOlivia because he was duped, he thought it was Olivia. I can still overlook the many differences. FauxOlivia is more matter-of-fact. When Nina asked FauxOlivia to intervene for Peter to Walter, she brushed her off. FauxOlivia doesn't do people skills or bedside manner.

Spoiler:

Knowing that Peter has feelings for FauxOlivia as well as Olivia has completely f*cked it up.

Men might be able to forgive and move on if the tables were turned ("I can understand how you also love another version of me"), but a woman, Olivia, can't move on from THAT.

They may get back to being friends, but she'll always have this nag at the back of her throat. If they do a mission exceptionally well, is that the way FauxLiv would have done ? If everything falls apart in a mission, will it be because Olivia instead of FauxOlivia were in charge.

BAD ROBOT!!!

"He still has feelings for her."

I'm getting a kick out of your signature, today, Judy.
The second one's funnier than the first.

I agree, there's no way to get past this, for a woman. I veer between being sad that they were so willing to destroy Olivia to kill off the benchwarmers, and queasy that they (being of the male persuasion) will find some way to force Olivia to forgive even that, and more gruesomely, to do as they said before, change to become more like it (used in the manner Lez uses 'it'------the unacceptable replacement for the loved one---), and then perhaps, in an access of hideous degradation, Olivia will save the fake's life and or raise her baby. Something a live human woman would blow her own brains out rather than do.

I am at a loss as to why Bad Robot hates Olivia so much, and why they have chosen also to make Peter such a creep.

The prospect of Olivia suffering along with Peter as her partner is gross, beyond words.

Postscript........ the Fringe spoiler/fansites I have in my reader, and tumblr, are eerily quiet today. It seems like the whole fringeverse feels kicked in the stomach, by fringe.

Urgh, the writers want to keep this triangle alive don't they? Knew it wouldn't go away, but r e a l l y wanting it too.

I've hated this season, and the whole olivia versus altOlivia thing, for me has ruined the show. Not to mention the fact that Peter continues to be a plot device for everybody and changes according to what the episode is. The writers have really put that into overdrive this season.

They wrote the romance and duping of Peter by altOlivia and the writers cannot take that back now. It happened, and I honestly don't think Peter and Olivia can ever happen now because it will continue to be a big cloud over them, that I'm not sure they can get passed. While the writers might think it was all really clever on there part, there has been too much emphasis on it for this season and they continue to drag it out. It's really bringing the show down and the writers really need to get over it.

I don't care for altOlivia. Never have, but the writers are desperate for us to be conflicted, aren't they? Hence the Simon letter and reading Peter's thoughts. Of course the boy is conflicted at the moment. Peter is still trying to come to terms with what happened. They don't spend the first half of the season putting a triangle in place, for it to be resolved straight away. So, why are people so surprised that they are continuing with it? I, personally, hate the triangle, and as Cathy? said, they could of used altOlivia on our side differently to what they decided to. See writers, you have choices.

I've said this before but I wonder how much of the triangle came from the girls that joined this season. They wrecked Brothers and Sisters. They have a new show that they have written, that they are shopping around at the moment. If it gets made, I'm assuming they will move on. What's with writers/producers not staying with the show? It's like a revolving door.

I will keep watching, but my interest is really waning. Maybe we can skip the next two episodes and go straight to the flashback episode 15. Ep 14 will be P/O trying to fix things, but we know that's not going to happen anytime soon, so why bother?

I don't see how there can be a season 4, if ratings keep dropping. After the last episode, I can see them continue to go down.

I think they used the triangle because the new writer team, that was all they knew; and then kept using it because it was easy to get buzz by making the fans angry and scared--------easier than writing good stories.

I flipped back through a bunch of old screencaps and clips this afternoon, and was really saddened by how much promise the show had, and how wrecked it is now. I don't see them getting a fourth season, either, and it saddens me too that they decided to prevent peter and Olivia from happening after starting it. Why not just never go there in the first place?

The part of me that hopes against hope will perhaps watch the trying to fix it episode... to see if they step back from the abyss of having him choose the other-- but it is painful now, all the time.

If they hadn't decided to insert the fake between Olivia and Peter, I could have liked her maybe; now I never will. It could have been an interesting study, instead they made it a rivalry. And Olivia goes from universe protector to runner up on a bride show.

There was SO much promise, there was such a lot of cool things they started, and then just let go. I blame Pinkner and Wyman (unless we find out differently)--Orci and Kurtzman leaving was a real shame. We COULD be having episodes dealing with those returned-abducted kids from the pilot, or ZFT, or the Pattern, or what the Observers were looking for (before some nitwit made them into the interfering busybodies they are now).

We could be having episodes that dealt with what Peter's childhood was like (he was experimented on too), what the fire in the lab was about, where Walter and Bell came up with the idea of cortexiphan......... and also episodes on Peter and Olivia and Walter solving cases, not cutting each others' throats.

A review by FringeTelevision :

Quote :

Olivia is developing a fairly serious inferiority complex, and she has begun to connect that feeling of not-measuring-up not just to her recent trip to Over There, but also to the childhood situation that made that trip possible: the Cortexiphan trials.

Quote :

Olivia: “She’s like me, but better.” My heart broke. Did your heart break? Poor Olivia.

I think this is the version of Fringe they're showing in the alt-verse, written by fakelivia, where she is the hero and gets the cute boy and wins everything she wants, because she just *is* better. And Olivia is the loser, this universe is full of losers.

I'd like my show back.

Nobles Intentions