3x15 "Subjetc 13" - Episode Discussion

Sweet, sad, a little too close to the bone for me in a couple of places. It doesn't match 'Peter' for me, but it does explain some things I'd wondered if they ever would.

The young Peter nailed Josh Jackson's Peter, didn't he? Even the fake smile and hollow eyes when he's lying (to himself? or just his not-Mother? that was quite a scene.

Walternate looked too much like a failed porn star! That hair and those aviators!

Orla Brady was wonderful; the young Olivia was great, and impulsive, and how shocking that she outed them! All unwittingly. No wonder Walternate calls her The Girl.

Yet to be explained is how Peter was convinced, and why Walter gave up, and how both children forgot.

It was amazing to think back to 'Jacksonville' and Peter consoling Olivia and neither remembering he had been there too!

Very nice!

I was messing around, waiting for more (unbiased) verdicts to come in,
I'm sure most of you have seen the Season Two bloopers, here's that,


I can't wait to wake up tomorrow for more reactions. Sorry, Elliot, if any moments were too close. I have to assume most folks have been through more than they say when comparing art imitiating Life. Here's to not downing a bottle of Scotch to have to deal with it.

Yes, yes, I was going, "They're way too old to not remember each other." But in "Bad Dreams" the man was going around "waking up cortexifan kids? Their memories were wiped, they were consigned as sleeper agents until their awakening. The first year was a process of activating Olivia. If I understood it correctly, Peter activated himself as a shapeshifter assassin.

But we haven't seen exactly how their memories were wiped, it could be as simple as hypnosis on children. Or, hey, drugs + hypnosis + whatever memory you want them to have. Maybe.

Other 1985 "Fringe" science: Laser surgery!

Cathy904 wrote:

Very nice!

I was messing around, waiting for more (unbiased) verdicts to come in,
I'm sure most of you have seen the Season Two bloopers, here's that,


I can't wait to wake up tomorrow for more reactions. Sorry, Elliot, if any moments were too close. I have to assume most folks have been through more than they say when comparing art imitiating Life. Here's to not downing a bottle of Scotch to have to deal with it.

Yes, yes, I was going, "They're way too old to not remember each other." But in "Bad Dreams" the man was going around "waking up cortexifan kids? Their memories were wiped, they were consigned as sleeper agents until their awakening. The first year was a process of activating Olivia. If I understood it correctly, Peter activated himself as a shapeshifter assassin.

But we haven't seen exactly how their memories were wiped, it could be as simple as hypnosis on children. Or, hey, drugs hypnosis whatever memory you want them to have. Maybe.

Other 1985 "Fringe" science: Laser surgery!

I'd forgotten those! Thanks.

Yeah, Growing up Tough. And yet, not Pickled.

I love that line, Peter activated himself as a shapeshifter assassin!
I suppose he did. And I think the mantra walter gave him did the hypnosis to make him forget the "nightmares" he was having.

I do think Our Two will remember each other sometime...how cool was that, that he was NOT afraid of her powers even then, and that he went outside of himself and his troubles to help her. So even though he knew he was not their son, he also knew they were good people, and that Walter would help Olivia.

Ugh I've realized that the crossing over that walter!not saw means he knew where to find them...no wonder Walter and Bell shut down Jville, Olivia must've said something that tipped them off.

"Bishop Dynamic"

I had to rewatch the moment Olivia went to tell Walter about her stepdad THREE times to understand !!!!!!!

First time I was like what ??? then, uhm, so she crossed when telling him......
Finally, I understood that Olivia crossed when entering his office. Walternate's office, and that's why he had the sketchpad.

Damn. Was I too tired to understand, or is there anyone else who was confused ?

THIS IS SO CUTE :





And I love the seahorse on the fridge.



And all the other clues......

I stayed home yesterday, not because of Fringe, but it gave me a chance to rest before the show. Some weeks I'm running on empty when I see the episode I blame my less-than-stellar first impressions on middle age.

But a sharp young thinker like you? I'll be watching it again on Fox this morning inbetween chores. Yes, she definitely crossed over and was speaking to Walternate. I'm sure it confused some folk. There wasn't the easy difference in dress, say like between hair color or Walternate's very expensive business suit back in 1985. I actually liked the near seamless exchanges between Elizabeth and Walternate there, and Elizabeth and Walter here.

Does anyone know what the glyphs spelled? It will probably be pretty hard to see the Observer this show.

I got very nostalgic for a moment. I was a hot young thing just starting at my hospital in 1985. My boss was a little older than Peter and Olivia in 1985, but I don't remind her of that. *Thinks* maybe I should, but I use some of the gophering with patients we staff all share as my free gym exercise.

Quote :

(Elliot) do think Our Two will remember each other sometime...how cool was that, that he was NOT afraid of her powers even then, and that he went outside of himself and his troubles to help her. So even though he knew he was not their son, he also knew they were good people, and that Walter would help Olivia.

Yes, I think that would be very nice. Might continue to help purge AltLiv from between them.

:( You might need to reset the counter, Lez, I thought during the previews it said, "Two weeks from tonight on Fringe". When you get a moment, do you mind posting this week's poll on the left column? Although it usually seems only you, me, and Elliot vote despite it's anonymity, I'm still optimistic for more opinions. Even if it's only a number.

I was playing a little with Youtube this morning, "sygyzy619" did a nice mix from "Firefly". The reason I'm including it here is where Peter's talking about how he keeps people at arm's length, and that's something he shares with Olivia. Thinking about the children's exchange.
They both had traumas they had to deal with when they were way too young, a good reason for preferring people at arms' length as adults. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1EMDXnOq34

The crossing over and outing the blue universe ...she didn't see any glimmer? That's not a continuity error, that's a storytelling error.
I know it's probably something they felt they had to do to set up how walternate found out, but it's still messy.

Elizabeth I like in both places, but otherwalter seems to have ALWAYS been about power and prestige, and warlike in ways realwalter wasn't, isn't. And that's before the abduction. That you cannot blame on Walter.

The easter eggery seemed overloaded, like they were showing off almost, or trying to throw a billion things at the screen so they can go back and mine them later. And having stuff stored up is good, but...

They cut a lot out, didn't they? The whole car scene, Nina and whomever, Peter hollering stop the car when he sees the tulips. Do you think that was because after that was filmed they found out they could get Nimoy back, and chose to change this episode?

Glyphs spelled "SWITCH".

Thanks for the glyph spelliing. By now I can see the hand with the dot and go, "That's an 'S'"

Elliot, sweetie, whatcha talkin' about, the extra scenes? Did you see several scenes that didn't make it to the final airing? I've seen Italian releases the same week of airing. But it seems like the production (thankfully) keeps a tight reign on scene releases. It would be routine for some scenes to show with the final cut, and others to be, well, cut.

By the way, THANK YOU, for being cocky enough to put out an opinion within an hour of the show. I have very mixed feelings about fans who read others' opinions, get the extra perspectives, then add it to their own opinon of the show. Standing on the shoulders of Others is how I feel about reviews put out a day or two after the show airs.

I'd like to foster a "Do it within the hour or two" of future shows. It doesn't matter if your opinion is politically correct. It matters most to me if you can give Original Perspectives.

In this gabby small circle I don't know if I can encourage more folks out with their opinions. Twitter was a hoot, mostly shoutouts to the production. I enjoyed most Twitter entries were accompianied by individualized avatars. My favorite was Broyles with a Santa Hat superimposed.

I've gone back to review some episodes this year. AltLiv caused such an earthquake amongst fans she overshadowed what they were doing with Peter and Olivia. The last 5 episodes showed Peter moving ever closer to Olivia, taking her lashing when she reverted to bitterness, then pointing out the elderly couple in "Firefly", their envious devotion.

I can't wait for that blurb when it talked about how much Walter and Olivia have had to do while Peter has been relegated to a second tier character.

Spoiler:

You're welcome! And---I've found I sort of feel the same way--some reviews seem either toadying to one viewpoint or just compilations.

The cut scenes were those we saw set photos of, with Nina in the car with the Bishop family and a man with glasses, and Peter hollering to stop the car when they get to the tulips... I think the thing where Mama talks to him about the tulips was pasted in instead............... weird.

Those pics were in Nigel Horsley's photostream on flickr, I think, or in Susan Gittins'. They are posted here somewhere, too, or links.

There were a bunch of things, too many to catch while watching, of the easter egg variety.

Really, I like to watch the episodes as art first, to enjoy the filming and acting and plotting, and then go back later and look at things. I don't want the thingy stuff (little props, decor, doo dads and gadgets and painting and.........all) to take away from my impressions of the people and the filming. That's what I love in a show, not the sly wink wink hidden stuff, the machinations.

Young Peter was really well done, he caught Josh's mannerisms as grown up Peter so well! Young Olivia was good, though maybe not quite as eerily perfect an echo, but this is our first one (young Olivia).

Tell me, though------------------where did Ms.DeadBurntAssistant go?

And were they really trying to say this fire was the one with a smaller, just past toddler, in a yellow dress, Olive, seen on that video tape in Bad Dreams?

Nuh-uh, not the same.

Hm, no, I don't believe they said it was the same. Didn't happened in the same room, Olive wasn't wearing yellow......

I think he had triggered her before, didn't he ?
But he triggered the fire ability.

That's why he says the crossing over must be related to the part of her brain that set things on fire ?
I'll try to find english subtitles tomorrow, there are some conversations that were hard to follow..................

When I get to watch it again, I'll be more sure. It just sounded like they were trying to telescope the (to me) earlier, firestarter incident, with this one, but maybe I misunderstood Cathy, as I had just watched it and was still in the moment.

I'll have to rewatch it.

And the Observer.............

Spoiler:

The only crowd scenes were at the school and going into Bishop Dynamic, right? Unless he was in the toystore.

That was a weird scene, the toystore.

The Observer

Spoiler:

Young Olivia's book

Quote :

New York City is subsumed in arctic winds, dark nights, and white lights, its life unfolds, for it is an extraordinary hive of the imagination, the greatest house ever built, and nothing exists that can check its vitality. One night in winter, Peter Lake—orphan and master-mechanic, attempts to rob a fortress-like mansion on the Upper West Side.

Though he thinks the house is empty, the daughter of the house is home. Thus begins the love between Peter Lake, a middle-aged Irish burglar, and Beverly Penn, a young girl who is dying.

Peter Lake, a simple, uneducated man who, because of a love which at first he does not fully understand, is driven to stop time and bring back the dead.

The title Winter's Tale is a reference to the similarly named Shakespeare play. In that play, as in this book, a major character disappears for years, only to return after a long and unexplained absence, unharmed, transformed, and redeemed.

Peter Lake is the central character of Winter's Tale. He has been called an allegory of the Jewish Messiah [1]. He changes the world by sacrificing his life for a child.

Beverly is a visionary who can feel the universe.

No thank you.