3x22 "The Day We Died" - Episode Discussion

He seems the most interested in them as individuals, as people (vs whatever the Observers want to accomplish). So I think he's the most likely suspect, except for the child Observer. He seemed to bond with all three, so maybe he will!!

A new Pop wrap interview is up. They even get in a dig at the fans, though Torv and Noble are more gracious.

Definitely looking like a lot less Peter in Season 4, to make way for a lot more alt-Walt and alt-Olivia. Yawn.

Also looks like indeed, the Peter disappearing idea was tossed in at the last moment, rather than planned out from the beginning.

I'm beginning to see why Josh is not eager to be in any promo appearances with Anna. He and Noble struck up a friendship, but one wonders if that isn't wearing thin too in the face of the producers always and only trumpeting the work of Noble and Torv, and then cutting Jackson's screen time.

If you're out there reading this, BR folks, it would be grand to find out different. And to see the prods and writers mentioning Josh's acting chops too, as well as returning him to equal status.

Quote :

PopWrap: Congratulations on a truly incredible season finale -- what did you think of it?
John Noble: I loved it. The script was evolving as we were doing it too – in particular, the ending with Peter evaporating. That was kind of a light thought that came in at one point and just made everyone say, “whoa.” But scripts often evolve like that, especially as they built the trilogy of episodes at the end of this season. So many things were happening, it was kind of mind boggling and very exciting, but kind of insane.

PW: Do you understand what happened?
Anna Torv: I do, but I’m not quite sure where it’s going.
John: At a psychological level, I absolutely understand it. For Walter/Walternate, I see them as the same man, so psychologically, I do understand. In dreams this happens, in other mental states this happens. So it doesn’t concern me that we do a literal representation that’s in another mind dimension, we all have those things.

PW: What excites you about the potential this universe bridge opens up for season four?
Anna: So much! I don’t know for sure, we haven't talked to the showrunners yet, but I would think this obviously means her baby doesn’t exist. I'm also curious to the concept of, "How much pain has Peter caused Olivia over the last three seasons?" Now, who is she without ever having experienced that? What kind of shifts will the characters make without Peter in our lives? But simultaneously how are we going to find him?

PW: I would imagine it also means you'll be playing both versions of your characters a lot more next year.
John: I think so too, and that is such a gift as an actor.
Anna: I love it. I’m also excited because we seen a lot of interaction between the characters, which we will now that they’re in the same world. Also, with Lincoln too! I know Seth [Gabel] is coming back!
John: Oh, he's so great!
Anna: It’ll be fun to see him on both sides as well.

PW: That could get messy for Fauxlivia!
John: Well she hasn’t committed to him yet!
Anna: That’s true! Maybe Olivia will get her back and date Lincoln! She needs some love too [laughs].

PW: Tonight is all about the actorly part of "Fringe" and obviously these dual performances are an excellent example of that. How have you approached it?
John: I’ve always seen these characters as the psychological parts of the same man. It’s that melding together – now the pressure is on enough that they have to stop compromising and come together. Because, and this is my personal opinion, but to survive this situation, this man needs to be his very best and that’s a combination of Walter and Walternate. That’s the approach I’m taking to it and it seems to be working. But we'll know for sure on Thursday, when we talk to the showrunners about season four.

PW: Oh man, you know that fans are going to be stalking your life on Friday now!
Anna: [laughs]
John: They’ll tell us just enough to keep us tantalized – that’s what they do.

PW: What are you hoping to talk about?
Anna: In that last speech where Peter talked about who brought the parts back – Astrid or Ella – I’m interested in that. I wonder if we’ll do more back and forth with the future.
John: I’m excited to continue with the different universes, I like that they’re going to work together. That’s always something we’ve wanted to do – not show a black and white world. This way you don’t automatically choose one side. We work really hard to humanize both sides.

PW: Back to the alternates, do you prefer playing one more than the other?
John: I do. I enjoy Walter more because he’s so random. And as an actor, that means I can do whatever I want and get away with it, whereas Walternate is so stitched up. Walter is a lot more fun.
Anna: It changes, I vacillate. When Faux-livia first came about I was thrilled not to be in the suit, but then I played Olivia Over There and I loved her during that period. It changes.

PW: Favorite episode this season?
John: I loved the one with Christopher Lloyd. It was such a joy to work with him and he was so good in the role.
Anna: I actually think “Entrada” – I enjoyed that because I had so much fun stuff to do,. You’re always biased towards things like that. It was my favorite episode to make, I don’t know how it would be watching it.

PW: And lastly, this show has really lived and died by the fans -- a very fickle community, it should be said.

Elliot, john and anna were only talking about what they expect from their charaters but it's pure speculation.

And then, josh was at the Fox upfronts with john and anna. He should have been also at the Paleyfest but he couldn't because he's filming his new movie during these days.

I can't see all this less Peter/josh screentime
Take a breath!

He's filming and vacationing, both! Was in Cannes last week while they were at Paleyfest. ("Drinking and chasing his woman around the world.")

I'm breathing, I'm just trying to figure out what is coming next, and it looks like it is mostly going to be the Anna & John show. There will be lots more of them and their alts, no? An episode only has so many minutes.

I'm just remembering how excited we were after Peter killed the shapeshifters, thinking his character was finally coming to the fore, going to get a bunch of screen time--finally did in the finale, and now they've deleted him completely!

And will be (it looks! my guess!) mostly this fall about what the four others would be like without Peter. ("It's a Wonderful Life" redux, only Peter isn't even going to be there to decide not to die).
So, scenes written for John and Anna, John & John, Anna & Anna. Which we have had lots & lots of already.
Plus, Seth Gable. I guess he is replacing Kirk Acevedo who has his own show next year (which sounds interesting, BTW).

To quote Josh: "You know what this scene needs? Peter."

I understand elliot, but don't worry. Personally i think the most interesting thing is what peter we'll see next season and what kind of connection he shares with the observers. Did you see the new video with the cast? They all talk about what happened to peter and how he is going to return. I trust the writers

I'm downloading it now (dialup! )

This was nice (/sarcasm):

Quote :

“I’m also curious to the concept of, “How much pain has Peter caused Olivia over the last three seasons?” Now, who is she without ever having experienced that? What kind of shifts will the characters make without Peter in our lives? But simultaneously how are we going to find him?”—Anna Torv - New York Post interview.

Read more

While I love this to death, and am totally curious, as she says, to
see those microshifts in the characters due to Peter’s absence, the first part, when she asks how much pain Peter’s caused over the course of the series, just rubs me the wrong way.

While I could understand him causing issue in the third season, I’m trying to figure out when, in the first 2 seasons, Peter caused her such distress as to re-form her personality. I could be wrong - I was a hardcore Olivia fan until the second half of the second season. And why focus on that? What about all the good stuff? I know I’m just reading a tiny quote, and probably out of context, but those are my thoughts.

It’s interesting, to say the least, to read her bad opinion of Peter,
hmmmmm. But why would Olivia want to be with someone, who caused her
pain for 3 years? LOL! No wonder Anna is championing for a
Olivia/Lincoln hook-up :-D

She at least allows that they will try to find him...doesn't sound like Anna is in any hurry for that though.


ETA........ in the interview, Josh says "there may be no season 4 for me, though there will be a season 4 for everybody else." (Though he laughs; and I do believe he will be in season 4, just will be hugely disappointed if it's only half the time like this past season.)

And I don't think the interview has been posted yet...? So here it is:

New writer/producer for Fringe for S4: David Fury (Imdb listing here ); work you may remember from Buffy, Angel, Lost, and 24.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/05/fringe-david-fury-new-writerproducer.html

(So that's two changes; wonder who is walking?)

...re-reading Fringe's writer/producer listings on IMDB, I peeked at Orci's writing creds, and remember all over again how much I like his writing:

Fringe (TV series)
The Road Not Taken (2009) (teleplay)
Unleashed (2009) (written by)
The Transformation (2009) (written by)
The Equation (2008) (written by)
The Ghost Network (2008) (written by)

---really looking forward to having one of the creators back on board!

Elliot, I think the Orci that is coming back is not the creator but his brother. He was on board in season 1 and then left and has been working on Hawaii Five O.

Thanks for the Pop Wrap interview. Interesting, and cements what I thought both actors liked about season 3.

Anna certainly laid her cards on the table, what she would like season 4 to entail. What's with the"Peter caused Olivia so much pain over the last three seasons"? Kind of baffled about that. Season 3 I can see, but the other two? Not quite sure what to think of that.

I'm guessing that season 4 will be all about the altuniverse, now that the bridge can bring characters over from the blueverse. The writers seem to prefer that one, anyway. So, now that Peter doesn't exist, I guess we are back to square one. What's Peter going to do? I'm guessing probably not much.

Oh, drat! I get them confused!
I think you're right about the future of the show...and Peter...especially since Anna is now campaigning for Olivia+Lincoln Lee romance:

Quote :

Anna seems to really be cheerleading Lincoln. At the Paley Center
last night, when asked to say what comes to mind when certain names are
mentioned, she gushed unabashedly about Seth, and how excited she is to
work with him, and how wonderful Lincoln is (she especially wants to see
more of Blue Lincoln), but when he mentioned Josh? Crickets. I’m not
kidding. The moderator had to ask her again, and prompt her, with, “You
two work together a lot.” “Yeah, a lot,” was her reply, complete with
eye roll. What was up with that? It was the one moment that made me go,
“Hmmm…” in an otherwise charming appearance by Anna. Maybe she considers
Josh to be her annoying big brother, and the idea of a P/O romance just
doesn’t sit well with her, but it just seemed odd.

Very unprofessional of her. (Does explain the body language in that upfronts pic...)

But if she's the fave, along with the alt-verse, that may be what they do. Sad. And sad for the show, Gabel is a rather pale actor compared to Josh. Anna dominates him on-screen, that might be part of the reason she prefers him.

I do hope the prods can lay this to rest, reassure us that Peter will still be the male lead, both in the show and in Olivia's heart. Anna's whims shouldn't trump the writing.

Huh, for me, the s3 finale may BE the series finale. Looking forward to 'Lay the Favorite', then.

Interesting. That explains alot actually. This plus the article, Anna has certainly made it known. Which is weird because she has never said much before. Maybe now that it looks like a complete reset because Peter is gone, she has decided to lay it out there.

It's not just Anna who loves the altuniverse, they all do, because they get to do something different. That's why I think it will be prominent because they put so much energy into it last year. Peter wasn't part of that. So, I don't know where he is going to fit in.

Josh was only in just over half the episodes in full capacity for season 3. Lincoln was in the other half. Now that there is a bridge, he could be in both universes fulltime. The producers were asked awhile ago on twitter if BlueLincoln would be part of the team over here and they said that they had no plans to at this time. However, since the ending seemed to be a last minute decision, I think anything they have said before they aired the finale, can be thrown out the window.

I just want season 1 and 2 back, with the core three doing their thing. However, I don't think we are ever going to see that again. JMO. It makes me sad. It's a completely different show now, and while I appreciate that you have to move on storywise, completely changing things just doesn't work for me. What were the last three seasons all about then?

You've just wrapped up what I've been thinking. I loved the first two seasons; they were fast moving, interesting on both sci-fi and character levels, exciting, witty, funny, and often moving. Years one and two were exceptional writing. There was a warm, quirky heart to them that was largely missing form s3, which got all hipster-dark. They seemed to rest on their laurels with the altverse, almost quit thinking except for the soap opera angles.

I thought about some random Fringe things this morning, and remembered so many things that were full of potential that they just dropped: the teleporter/time travel thing that DRJ tried to use but failed; it wasn't destroyed, they had posession of it there at Reiden Lake---------never mentioned it again. Loeb and "we saved you" to Olivia.. from what? The tests in 'Ability'--- they just did one of the ten...
(Heh--Olivia's powers only work with Peter around... so she will be impotent without him!)
There was the whole Violet Sedan Chair thing, which ultimately led nowhere, and those interesting vids of the time agent.... pffft. The shape shifters, Newton (and their info disks and Belly's key to them!)...The cylinder. Heck, even the pen that Sherriff Matthis gave Peter... 'find the crack'... Nina, Peter's past, the previous Fringe team, all discarded. And now, Peter himself.

It would be interesting to see what Josh's contract really says, wouldn't it? Do they pay him full bore to not be in the show? Keep him on tap for a few eps to lure back his fans? They've disrespected him for a long time, it might be humiliating for him, or it might be humorous, depending on the latitude his contract has for outside work.

And I agree, stories need to grow and change, but this looks like just the Anna & some John show, with Josh kept around for label appeal; if they admitted they were not going to use him much, that it was just going to be a vehicle for Anna, half the fans they have left would depart. The whole original story needs Peter to function (not just a random character played sometimes by Josh). If they don't restore him to equal footing, it will be their last season, deservedly.

I totally agree with you Elliot !!

I've just seen the season finale yesterday evening. And despite i've read about it, so i wasn't surprise, i was totally depited ... WTF ? Peter vanishing ??? He is one the side of the triangle, a important one.

Olivia need him to have powers, need him to be calmed , they are complementary... they showed that before ... so now ???

Hi fringerfan!

Yes, I was disgusted with the ending, it makes a mockery of us for investing in the characters all these years, and yes, what a good analogy, like a three-legged stool with only two legs now. For me at least, without Peter, there is no Fringe.

I can only hope that the producers see the fan anguish and irritation, and change their minds. (I'd love to see for example that season 4 is told from Peter's viewpoint, mostly him and just a smidge of the others as he looks for them! Then back to their normal three).........just, really miss the type of show Fringe used to be.

Urmmm.....
"in some capacity"?

Interesting!

Yes, I saw that. It seems when ever the producers were asked about Peter and his whereabouts and how much we will see of Peter, they all didn't really answer the question. It was all we don't want to tell you too much, etc.

Maybe they don't know yet and have yet to work out everything for season 4? They did say they always map out things for the whole season before they start. They said they don't start the season until they have done that. They also said that they haven't talked to Josh yet about season 4.

The characters that tend to be on viewers minds are the ones we see all the time on the screen. If we don't see Peter much in season 4, then he will become a periphery character compared to Walter and Olivia and their alts, Astrid and Lincoln (depending on how much they use him). That's what concerns me the most. Peter is one of the main three, but if they don't use him as one, then there is a possibility that the interest in Peter will definitely not be there. Hence, he could stay as a periphery character for the inevitable future.

The producers have said that they know where they are going with the cliffhanger finale leading into season 4, so I really hope they do. I also hope they have an ongoing plan, and that they stick to that and not succumb to fandom pressure for other things. They have said that the three main characters are the core of the show, and that they will remain true to that. I'm really hoping that's true and they do.

The writers said that they planned all since the beginning, so they will able to explain and develop the Peter's twist next season. We have to trust them!

Well... not having seen the vid above (watching it when I come in from watering)...I have to say, I trusted them not to have Fakey take over Olivia's life, I trusted them not to have Peter sleep with Fakey... so I'm not sure about trusting them anymore. I know they've said the three main characters are their core and they will keep with that, but as Josh's role gets trimmed more and more, I'm doubtful. They paid Josh not to appear a big chunk of the episodes this past year, and he said those were his favorite weeks, so that seems odd.

I took that Elliot, as turning a negative into a positive. Josh is not a diva, and he said from the outset that he was disappointed that he didn't have a double, so hence not being in the altuniverse. He said he was jealous of them, being able to have the experience of playing with different versions.

What's he going to do about it? He can't do anything and saying a woe is me everytime he is asked about it, is not his style. So, the "I get a week off thing, seems to be his standard reply now". I remember one interview early in season 3 and the interviewer dispaired about him not being in every episode, and his reply was "Except you have the alternate universe, and that's great". Not the exact quote, but you get the idea. It's not about him, it's about the show.

Like any actor, I'm sure he would love to be working instead. I'm sure he would love to be involved in the altuniverse world, and be able to bond with the cast, through that experience. I think it is telling that he looked for work during the hiatus, and that he was lucky enough to have landed the role. He wants to work, and challenge himself.

I think you are right; and he seems to be quite the gentleman. He only has postive things to say about the cast and crew, writers, everyone.

And he has been an actor for about the same timespan as John, so he's very much the professional. It did seem like he was disappointed not to join in the alt-fun, indeed to be cast as the "rube" as he put it. It must have been like looking in the window at a party he wasn't allowed to join.

In that little interview with Akiva, Joel and Jeff, there is actually praise of Josh (from both Wyman and Akiva) as an actor and creative thinker; first time I have heard kudos out of BR for Josh in years. Maybe seeing him working elsewhere makes them respect him more, see him through fresh eyes.

I think (as you said last year, I think?) BR have had difficulty with writing for ensemble: one character comes to the fore, and the others fade out almost completely.
Contrast that with what Hart Hanson has done with 'Bones', where the characters have all had layers and layers of reveal and growth, in a rather well balanced rate of development.
That would seem to me to be optimum, with everyone getting a bit of the spotlight, and getting to explore nuance and backstory. Otherwise I would think it would get stultifying for the actor, and that it would get tempting to just phone it in.

I'm glad there is this movie for Josh, it sounds like it will be interesting, and with that under his belt he will have some fresh stuff to bring to the table, in whatever capacity they allow him.

It would be nice for BR to cut the coyness and relieve the fans' anxiety over this (an assurance he would be in every, or nearly every, episode, for example); that they haven't done so is concerning.

More snippets from the Paley fest (somewhere there are mp3 links, haven't found them yet)

Quote :

The writers talked about using the actors' strengths to help them write. Anna followed up by talking about what John and Josh did with the father-son dynamic that basically compelled the writers to explore that relationship further.

An audience member asked about Mr. X, and JW/JP said that this would be addressed in S4. The producers revealed that they know the "tentpoles" for the show. Both JW & JP said that, as fans of TV, they can tell when showrunners know where they want to take their shows, and when they're just making it up as they go along. JW reassured the audience that they know where they want to go in S4.

When asked how/if social media (like Twitter) have affected the writing, they said that the immediate feedback helps them know if they're doing their job in answering questions that the audience has about the show, but the feedback doesn't dictate what they do. They know what the audience will likely respond to positively or negatively, and they won't take a route if it doesn't serve the story they're trying to tell. As an example, they said they were aware how *hated* Bolivia was, and they said that this was purposeful, so that the payoff at the end of the season would be more impactful.

Quote :

''It's scary, what's coming next.''
Jeff Pinkner (referring to the acting challenges that will be thrown at the FRINGE actors in Season 4.)

"It's scary, what's coming next" O.O

I know!! What do you think he means?

I have no idea. Fortunately there will be soon the Comic Con, so we'll know something about that and more